It's come to my attention recently that a lot of players aren't familiar with the most up-to-date rules on the priscus subreferendum.
Some people think that the priscus subreferendum is held before the main referendum.
Many people are not aware that the prisci now have ballots instead of votes and that cards that reference votes are probably not relevant to prisci.
What are your experiences with player knowledge on the priscus subreferendum?
More specifically:
How does Rastacourere affect a Priscus? It was not among the cards updated to reflect the change in rules regarding "ballots." Was this an oversight, or is this intended?
I argue that the older rulebook called "ballots" within the Prisci sub-referendum "votes." Since Rastacourere is tied to the title, I would infer that the vampire would have one less "ballot." (Without the rule change the wording would indicate that the vampire receives one less vote for the prisci block.)
Rastacourere
[Action] Action
[1 Pool]
+1 stealth action.
Put this card on a titled vampire. The vampire's title is worth 1 less vote during referendums, and he or she gets -1 stealth when attempting political actions. This vampire's capacity is reduced by 1. (A vampire's capacity cannot go below 1.) A vampire may have only one Rastacourere.
Independent Futurist. Contrarian (titled, X votes where X is the number of votes as the acting minion.) Target Vitals is always the better combat card.
Direwolf, I sent you an email yesterday with my research into that question. LSJ specifically ruled that Rastacourere does not affect a priscus's vote/ballot in the priscus subreferendum. Of course, his reasoning didn't really make logical sense since prisci technically received a vote at that time - it's just how he intended it to work. Pascal did not update Rastacourere at the beginning of the year, which means the card functions as LSJ intended.
This post is not entirely based on our last game. I played with Genevieve in Denver last weekend, and many people I talked to there thought that the priscus subreferendum happened before the other votes, and many were unfamiliar with the term "ballot". Some, like you, were long-time players.
I thought this thread might be a way to raise awareness about the subject.
I don't read my e-mail. I still think that ruling is shit. The Priscii are the perfect example of why v:tes is more complicated than it needs to be. At least you had an Archbishop to target eh?
Independent Futurist. Contrarian (titled, X votes where X is the number of votes as the acting minion.) Target Vitals is always the better combat card.
> direwolf wrote:
> More specifically:
>
> How does Rastacourere affect a Priscus? It was not among the cards updated to reflect the change in rules regarding "ballots." Was this an oversight, or is this intended?
>
> I argue that the older rulebook called "ballots" within the Prisci sub-referendum "votes." Since Rastacourere is tied to the title, I would infer that the vampire would have one less "ballot." (Without the rule change the wording would indicate that the vampire receives one less vote for the prisci block.)
>
> Rastacourere
> [Action] Action
> [1 Pool]
> +1 stealth action.
> Put this card on a titled vampire. The vampire's title is worth 1 less vote during referendums, and he or she gets -1 stealth when attempting political actions. This vampire's capacity is reduced by 1. (A vampire's capacity cannot go below 1.) A vampire may have only one Rastacourere.
>
Priscus title is worth 0 vote. Rastacourere doesn't affect it.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> direwolf wrote:
> I don't read my e-mail. I still think that ruling is shit. The Priscii are the perfect example of why v:tes is more complicated than it needs to be. At least you had an Archbishop to target eh?
>
Well, in fact, ballot are here to make thoses rulings simple. It's just unfortunate that they came so late.
I'm still mystified by Overseer text with regards to ballots. (from the Secret Library)
Overseer
Political Action
Requires a Laibon with a capacity above 4. Title.
In this referendum, each Guruhi gets one additional vote. Any votes or ballots any magaji cast in favor of this referendum are ignored. If this referendum passes, put this card on the acting Laibon to represent the Laibon title of magaji (worth 2 votes).
I thought a vampire can only hold one title and especially can't hold two from different sects. Unless ballots are now outside Priscus sub-referenda.
Edit: God help me, I realize it's in Cardinal Benediction with regards to Camarilla vampires... The only logical thing left to me, outside of being completist, is the fear that ballots may be coming to a sect near you!
Run, run for the hills! Two un-disciplines wasn't enough! Sub-referenda might still invade beyond a Priscus title!
> Azel wrote:
> I thought a vampire can only hold one title and especially can't hold two from different sects. Unless ballots are now outside Priscus sub-referenda.
>
You're right. It's simply that, if prisci ballot are goven to a magaji, they can't use it. This usually never happen, but it could with the help of future card.
Also, Grationo that became laibon, then magaji, will have a ballot.
www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?crypt=258
> Izaak wrote:
> I think the more important question here is "why on earth would you put Rastacourere in your deck"?
>
Because you're playing Breed&Boon and want permanent vote advantage that is playable by an Embrace. It's unlikely but conceivable.
i just read that rule.
and i didnt understand anything.
can someone explain me in simple words how it works? read as written i believe it misses some sentences before first paragraph in the rulebook . .
appreciated
During a referendum, non-Priscus vampires* can cast votes for or against a referendum.
A vampire with a Priscus title casts a ballot instead for or against a referendum.
When votes are tallied, if there is a majority of ballots for the referendum, the Prisci block (regrouping all the Prisci) is for and 3 votes for are added to the total.
If there is a majority of ballots against the referendum, the Prisci block is against and 3 votes against are added to the total.
If there is a tie amongst the Prisci, the Prisci block abstains.
For instance, if a Prince casts 2 votes for and a Priscus casts 1 ballot against, when results are tied, the Prisci block (worth 3 votes) is against and the referendum fails by 1 vote.
If a Prince casts 2 votes for and a Priscus casts 1 ballot against and another Priscus casts 1 ballot for, then there is a tie between the Prisci (1 against 1) and the Prisci block abtains. The referendum passes by 2 votes.
* in some weird cases, a vampire can cast votes and ballots (eg. if Gratiano gets another title). Both are cast together (eg. Gratiano with a cardinal title both express 3 votes and 1 ballot at the same time).
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
so let me rephrase:
during a referendum
all priscus vampires on table cast a "sub-referendum"(ballot) to vote in favour or against the main referendum.
the priscus "vote" is 3.
so, if i am the only player on table with 1 priscus, i do the "sub referendum" (ballot) alone so my only priscus is worth 3 votes (to reassume a short example) ??
> Shukran wrote:
> so let me rephrase:
>
> during a referendum
>
> all priscus vampires on table cast a "sub-referendum"(ballot) to vote in favour or against the main referendum.
>
> the priscus "vote" is 3.
>
> so, if i am the only player on table with 1 priscus, i do the "sub referendum" (ballot) alone so my only priscus is worth 3 votes (to reassume a short example) ??
>
That's right.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director