[Alternative format] Deal with the Devil

Hello, About a year before HttB ("Research area"), I organized a tournament with special rules (that is, a non-constructed tournament). The special rules were as follows: At the beginning of the game, before drawing her hand, each Methuselah picks 3 cards from her library and places them face down in the middle of the table. These cards must be cards that go to the ash heap as they resolve. (No Pentex, no .44 Magnum, no Conviction, no Steely Tenacity, no Echo of Harmonies, ..) The "middle of the table" will be referred to as "common fields". When the game begins, the cards in the common fields are revealed. Any player may play a card from the common fields as if it were in her hand. If a player plays a card from the common fields, it is moved to a private field in front of that player instead of her ash heap. A player cannot play a card from her private field, but a player can play a card in another player's private field, as if it were in her hand. If a player plays a card from another player's private field, it is moved to this player's private fieldinstead of her ash heap. When a player is ousted, she takes back all her cards from common and private fields(even those that are in other players' private fields). When a player is ousted, all remaining Methuselahs can go through their library and add a card that matches the previous criteria to the common fields. Shuffle library afterwards. When a player is ousted, other Methuselah's cards in her private field are moved to the common fields. This rule was appreciated by players, and it did help some "less obvious cards" to get played. Of course, if you're having a Deflection in there, it might be used against you in the end. But if you're having your special thanatosis / anarch / black hand card in there, who else is going to use it? If someone wants to play this, there's a little something about the"infinite loops" that they must know: If the game is in a state that it has already reached before, then taking the move that would recreate the loop isn't allowed. Usual example is hunting with Henry Taylor, getting blocked by a Magaji, playing Earth Meld, and doing it again. Applied to these alternative rules, the problem might happen with combat cards.If Flash is in the common fields, and A uses it to go to long range, and then player B uses it to go to close range, the state of the game isn't the same as previously (Flash is now in front of B and not in the common fields). So A can use Flash to go to long range, but B could not use it again to come back to close range, because the state of the game where Flash was in front of A in that round of combat has already been reached previously. If Flash is in front of B, and A uses it to go to long range, B can use it to go to close range, but A can't use it to go to long range afterwards.

I love the idea. Are decklists available somewhere ?

Any deck is valid for this format. In that tournament, I remember some decks: - I was playing Lutz and AUS / PRE / OBF friends. - my predator in the finals was playing weenie presence (and I knew it, which led me to move 3 telepathic misdirections in the middle of the table, while he moved 3 charming lobbies). - someone was playing Anarch Giovannis (and noone else played his anarch cards - Gear Up, The Mole, ..)

And did you talk about this because you just recalled it, or do you intent to prepare another tournament with that ? (my first thought would be to put Deep Song, Flesh of Marble, Claw of the dead in the open area )

I was looking for it, and couldn't find it on this website. There's no copyright on that, feel free to use it at will Deep Song, Flesh, Claws is a nice option, but a single Majesty would ruin that first opportunity you have to torporize someone.

I'll try to advertise this format in my community. Personally, i would choose Botched move, Quick Jab and Shoulder Drop cards.

> Pascal wrote: > Deep Song, Flesh, Claws is a nice option, but a single Majesty would ruin that first opportunity you have to torporize someone. > Well, I still have 57 card to deal with Majesty. The goal seem to find card that every one will want to play, but that advantage mainly you. Here, everyone is interested by Deep Song (if only to bleed), or Flesh of marble (to survive against combat), while you are the one who have built its package that only aggravated damage and ignore carrion crow. On the same idea, you can put High Ground on common ground, since it is an acceptable combat defense, while your flying Vladimir use it and Breath of Dragon. There is also the idea of putting blood-intensive card in the common area while playing a blood denial deck (too bad you can't put Agent of power in the common area)

You can also plan on using the cards only once and not give others anything. A Setite with Eternals of Sirius on turns 1, 2, 3 can be a very scary thing. I think I would go for Temptation of Greater Power in a Victor Pelletier deck. Now who dares to put a vampire in play? EDIT: dammit, Pascal, you're too fast. That Shilmulo Tarot must have stayed for only 5 seconds before I edited it out.

Shilmulo Tarot isn't a card that goes to the ash heap as it is played (but MAgic of the Smith is).

> Ohlmann wrote: > > > Pascal wrote: > > Deep Song, Flesh, Claws is a nice option, but a single Majesty would ruin that first opportunity you have to torporize someone. > > > Well, I still have 57 card to deal with Majesty. The goal seem to find card that every one will want to play, but that advantage mainly you. > > Here, everyone is interested by Deep Song (if only to bleed), or Flesh of marble (to survive against combat), while you are the one who have built its package that only aggravated damage and ignore carrion crow. > But as soon as they realize that, if they're in your common fields, you're less dangerous (if at all) in combat, they might be willing not to get that +1 bleed if it saves their vampire. > Ohlman wrote: > On the same idea, you can put High Ground on common ground, since it is an acceptable combat defense, while your flying Vladimir use it and Breath of Dragon. > > There is also the idea of putting blood-intensive card in the common area while playing a blood denial deck > > (too bad you can't put Agent of power in the common area) >

> Pascal wrote: > If someone wants to play this, there's a little something about the"infinite loops" that they must know: If the game is in a state that it has already reached before, then taking the move that would recreate the loop isn't allowed. > Usual example is hunting with Henry Taylor, getting blocked by a Magaji, playing Earth Meld, and doing it again. > Just as a reminder, this is not specific to the Deal with the Devil format. See 4.9 in the Tournament rules Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Does that not slow down the game too much when people have to ponder cards they are not used to play in several different areas of the table? One could have a dumbed down version where all the public cards are removed from the game once played.

> Non-existant user wrote: > Does that not slow down the game too much when people have to ponder cards they are not used to play in several different areas of the table? > Not really. The cards players will pick will often be quite specific to their clan (so that they don't get harmed by your own ammo). > One could have a dumbed down version where all the public cards are removed from the game once played. > Well, you could, but the idea here was that, if you were tricky enough, noone else would use your toys, and if you were too mainstream, you stuuff might end up used against you.

> Pascal wrote: > if you were tricky enough, noone else would use your toys, and if you were too mainstream, you stuuff might end up used against you. > That's the opposite you should do. If your toy are too tricky, you will be able to use them only once. If your toy are useable by anyone, then not only will you be able to use them again and again and again, but you will be best prepared against it - after all, you were expecting your opponent playing this. There is also the outferior. Put a Domain of Evernight, and chance are you will be able to use it every turn, simply because at least one (cross table) player will find useful to get +1 stealth, even though it advantage them less than you.

> Ohlmann wrote: > There is also the outferior. Put a Domain of Evernight, and chance are you will be able to use it every turn, simply because at least one (cross table) player will find useful to get +1 stealth, even though it advantage them less than you. > Ah, right. I think one of the players was playing some Bloodlines clan, with outferiors. Domain of Evernight is a clever one.

Sounds like a good format for Ian Forestal.

Well, Ian has some awesome dealing ability in this format (in that he can play most of the other players' cards so that they can replay them afterwards), but base Freak Drive isn't as good as sup Freak Drive, etc.

Clan hosers. When you are anvil, be patient; when a hammer, strike. pckvtes.wordpress.com @pckvtes

I think I'd put Sudden Reversal in my set, then play no Masters of my own. I think this method would mostly remove ANYONE from playing Masters unless the whole table approved. Life in the City would also be high on my list, if I didn't hate blood gain so much.

> Miasmat wrote: > Life in the City would also be high on my list, if I didn't hate blood gain so much. > Good one. It's better than a Coven for the decks that need it. A DI in the middle would be hilarious in a wall: it slows down the table, removes pool and people would have to deal crosstable to cancel what you play in their turn, so you should not be affected too much.