Is there any options to use the additional bleed action provided by the combat version of Taking the skin : minion during another methuselah's turn ?
Innocuous example, The Ankou with abombwe burns a vampire who just hunted, then plays taking the skin and untaps. Can he bleed now ?
I know it sounds twisted, but the card text clearly says I can bleed *this* turn. Even if does not mention other methuselah, semantically it sounds ok to act the turn Taking the skin is played. Sounds like a nice discovery, but i'll let you crush my dream with funky explanations
Taking the Skin: Minion
Action Modifier
Combat
Abombwe
Cancel a frenzy card played on this vampire as it is played.
Skin. Play when this vampire burns a minion. Put this card on this vampire and untap him or her. This vampire may bleed an additional time this turn and gets +1 bleed and +1 stealth when bleeding. Burn this card during your discard phase. A minion can have only one skin.
Imagination is our only weapon in the war against reality -Jules de Gaultier
Also a (maybe stupid?) question: if I diablerize and then play "taking the skin" I can bleed twice with the minion, each time with +1/+1 right? (provided I have a freak drive or similiar to untap in between)
@Reyda : as I read the card, the card does not explicitely allow you to ignore more restriction than the NRA rule. So you can't use it on another player turn.
@Johanes : I see no reason why you couldn't. (well, I am not a good rule connoisseur, still )
> Also a (maybe stupid?) question: if I diablerize and then play "taking the skin" I can bleed twice with the minion, each time with +1/+1 right? (provided I have a freak drive or similiar to untap in between)
>
That is allowed, yes.
> @Reyda : as I read the card, the card does not explicitely allow you to ignore more restriction than the NRA rule. So you can't use it on another player turn.
>
Ye that seems the logical answer, and the ne I'd give as well, but the card text is kinda ambigious here.
Wait, it just says burn a minion... So you can self destruct your own minions for this! Like, oh, Smash and Grab at (+1 stealth action. Burn 2 life from an ally or retainer.) on your own Underbridge Stray to get +1 bleed at +1 stealth for two bleed actions?
OMG, I have a puppy mill sacrificial altar deck bubbling in my head now! I just need to throw in Tier of Souls for extra bleed and theme and an excuse to go infernal!
I just checked and Horseshoes at and Brick Laying at work too. Shweet, with Abombwe as a trifle master discipline that means Osebo and Guruhi can join the fun! All those actions become undirected naturally.
Yeah, it works with Jake Washington too. But I found master card slots at a greater premium than minion card slots. But hey, Repo Men! It's like these taking the skin monsters work their way up from puppies to people...
> johannes wrote:
> Also a (maybe stupid?) question: if I diablerize and then play "taking the skin" I can bleed twice with the minion, each time with +1/+1 right? (provided I have a freak drive or similiar to untap in between)
>
No, it's not a stupid question : The card text of taking the skin minion will allow you to bleed twice.
It supercedes the rules.
-and most abombwe players use it this way : Bleed, being blocked, blocker is vaporised, untap with Taking the skin, then bleed again with an additional bleed and stealth. But you can also burn a vampire from your prey in torpor (and play predator's transformation for 2 pool damage), play taking the skin, bleed for 2, freak drive, bleed again for 2.
I often say Abombwe is a totally overlooked discipline.
> Izaak wrote:
>
> > @Reyda : as I read the card, the card does not explicitely allow you to ignore more restriction than the NRA rule. So you can't use it on another player turn.
> >
> Ye that seems the logical answer, and the ne I'd give as well, but the card text is kinda ambigious here.
>
That's why I'm asking The rule is : card text takes precedence. Taking the skin already allows me to perform an action i'm not supposed to do again. As it is written the text could allow me to do this action even if it's not my turn. maybe it's not just semantics ?
I'm waiting for Floppy's answer.
Imagination is our only weapon in the war against reality -Jules de Gaultier
> Reyda wrote:
> I often say Abombwe is a totally overlooked discipline.
>
Not for me! I just overlooked this card for all the time.
Alone +1 capacity for trifle MPA is awesome.
> Reyda wrote:
> That's why I'm asking The rule is : card text takes precedence. Taking the skin already allows me to perform an action i'm not supposed to do again. As it is written the text could allow me to do this action even if it's not my turn. maybe it's not just semantics ?
>
The point you deliberaty ignore is that card supersede rule only when they explicitely supersede rules. It's not apparently the case here, since the only rule explicitely stated is the number of time you can bleed per turn. You can bleed the same number of time on your turn than on other people turn, provided you can act at all.
I think fakir would be optimal. summon an ally at big presence, freak drive, little blood of sandman the ally and take his skin, and bleed twice. using rutors hand and mylan the previous turn would mean you only need One freak drive to bleed for three at stealth twice. sounds fun. maybe I shoulda gotten more ebony kingdom...
That's way too many moving parts. There's like, no way that will ever actually work, especially since the better alternative is just kill other people's stuff instead.
A guy in our group had a deck with Taking the Skin with just Matata and friends. It's fairly simple to burn vampires with ani/abo so what he just did was burn weenies and allies backwards or crosstable and bleed forward. It worked kinda ok, because you get to bleed for a surprisingly high amount considering how many combat cards you actually play.
It took some very careful play to decide what you needed to burn without giving away the table to someone else and it was kinda dull to play against but it did work quite well.
> Reyda wrote:
> Is there any options to use the additional bleed action provided by the combat version of Taking the skin : minion during another methuselah's turn ?
>
Not without anything explicitly allowing it.
> Reyda wrote:
> Innocuous example, The Ankou with abombwe burns a vampire who just hunted, then plays taking the skin and untaps. Can he bleed now ?
>
Not unless the Madness Network is in play.
> Reyda wrote:
> I know it sounds twisted, but the card text clearly says I can bleed *this* turn. Even if does not mention other methuselah, semantically it sounds ok to act the turn Taking the skin is played. Sounds like a nice discovery, but i'll let you crush my dream with funky explanations
>
It reads you may bleed this turn indeed. However, Powerbase: Montreal reads "Any vampire may steal this location for his or her controller as a action." , which doesn't allow out-of-turn actions.
> johannes wrote:
> Also a (maybe stupid?) question: if I diablerize and then play "taking the skin" I can bleed twice with the minion, each time with +1/+1 right? (provided I have a freak drive or similiar to untap in between)
>
There's no such thing as a "stupid" question
The answer is yes.
I know that this is the wrong forum part and topic for this but I can't help posting a deck that I have had some fun playing, using this very interesting card. Enjoy:
Deck Name : Brazzaville Purge
Author : Stefan Karlsson
Description :
Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 2 max: 10 average: 5.83333
4x Kamiri wa Itherero (10) Akunanse (group 4)
1x Kamiri wa Itherero Adv (10) Akunanse (group 4)
1x Florentina Lengauer (4) Malkavian (group 4)
1x Jeffrey Mullins (4) Gangrel antitribu (group 4)
1x Roger Farnsworth (4) Malkavian antitribu (group 3)
1x Bloodfeud (2) Malkavian antitribu (group 4)
1x Denette Stensen (2) Gangrel antitribu (group 4)
1x Krid (2) Nosferatu (group 3)
1x Old Neddacka (2) Nosferatu antitribu (group 4)
Library [69 cards]
Action [17]
7x Baltimore Purge
2x Epiphany
2x Hourglass of the Mind
6x Sacrificial Lamb
Action Modifier [31]
2x Devil-Channel: Throat
1x Elder Impersonation
2x Enkil Cog
2x Faceless Night
18x Freak Drive
3x Lost in Crowds
1x Strange Day
2x Tangle Atropos' Hand
Action Modifier/Combat [10]
2x Predator's Transformation
1x Swallowed by the Night
7x Taking the Skin: Minion
Equipment [4]
1x Kduva's Mask
1x Laptop Computer
1x Reliquary: Akunanse Remains
1x Seal of Veddartha
Master [5]
1x Ancestor Spirit
1x Coven, The
2x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
Retainer [2]
1x J. S. Simmons, Esq.
1x Tasha Morgan
Crafted with : Anarch Revolt Deck Builder. [Wed Sep 12 22:39:27 2012]
www.lordoftheclog.blogspot.com
> Pascal wrote:
>
> > Reyda wrote:
> > Innocuous example, The Ankou with abombwe burns a vampire who just hunted, then plays taking the skin and untaps. Can he bleed now ?
> >
> Not unless the Madness Network is in play.
>
ok I need malk networks for this New Deck )
Imagination is our only weapon in the war against reality -Jules de Gaultier
> Ohlmann wrote:
> So, you intend to give protean, then abonwe to the Ankou, and then hope someone hunt ?
>
> ... I need to play against this deck.
>
You don't hope someone hunts, you play Thirst with several other Gehenna events to make them hunt.
yes, thirst is good, but restricted vitae is even better. Villein to zero, hunt on a younger vamp, excellent thirst. It's beautiful in midgame when the vamps have 3/4 blood on them
Imagination is our only weapon in the war against reality -Jules de Gaultier
Before you put too much planning into that strategy, Reyda, remember that any bonus blood gained from the hunt comes from the blood bank, not the target vamp.
Restricted Vitae does actually allow you to steal blood of younger minions as a Hunt Action.
This idea of your's Reyda really reminds me of a deck we built recently in our playgroup which was basically a Malk/Dementation Blood-Denial deck. Haunting, Derange and so on with the Ankou ready to burn them. Then just back it up with mild bleeds for the kill. Possibly also including ideas like Tensions (so you make your prey lose pool after you nuke their minion with The Ankou).
Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
> Miasmat wrote:
> Before you put too much planning into that strategy, Reyda, remember that any bonus blood gained from the hunt comes from the blood bank, not the target vamp.
>
Nope, it's actually quite the opposite. Unless specified, additional blood gained on hunt actions comes from where it's taken. [LSJ 20030519]