Can I play Giant's Blood on an uncontrolled vampire?

does not seem to violate card text/rules UDHR18/19/27

Huh? Baron of Frankfurt

> Joscha wrote: > Huh? > I think he is trying to say that you can play GB on an uncontrolled vampire since card text does not mention "controlled".

> mirddes wrote: > does not seem to violate card text/rules > When posting a rules question, please ask the question in a clearer way. If your question is if you can play a Giant's Blood on an uncontrolled vampire, the answer is no (see section 1.6.1.4 of the Rulebook): Targets. If a card is played on another card, or selects or chooses or otherwise targets another card, the target card must be in play (i.e., controlled). Vampires in the torpor region are eligible targets by default, but vampires in the uncontrolled region and contested cards are not. V:EKN Website Coordinator

thank you for responses, however, this does nto satisfy me as many many many card text specify controlled and/or ready. GB simply states vampire. Fill a vampire to full capacity with blood from the blood bank. Only one Giant's Blood can be played in a game. controlled or not, face down vampire is still vampire. i like to use as few words as possible, as does GB. especially when taking into consideration once per game, make me feel designers intended an 11 to be brought from uncontrolled 'just like that' have a great day, hope you see the light. rulefags/religifags are not very different. law/lore is interpreted. i no mean to troll, just speak broken internets/engrish. i think english is designed to be 'too flexible' im sure we could cite dozens of examples of specifying controlled/uncontrolled/ready; maybe even hundreds. HAVE A GREAT DAY and again, i thank everyone for their input. seems in 2010 someone asked the same question, i can't read their question/answers right now, internet fail, so here we go anyway www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=giants%20blood%20vtes&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.white-wolf.com%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fg%3Dposts%26t%3D26571&ei=9XA5UNSSDIa5iQffwYGIBA&usg=AFQjCNE7wZEOKcA85zvJkFvkInqnhyyM4g&cad=rja i like to dissect every word, or lack of; get's on my mum's nerves, and my companion. ill leave you with GB card text. Fill a vampire to full capacity with blood from the blood bank. Only one Giant's Blood can be played in a game. UDHR18/19/27

1.4. The Golden Rule for Cards Whenever the cards contradict the rules, the cards take precedence. UDHR18/19/27

1994 card text If this is the first time Giant's blood is being played in the game, restore a vampire to full capacity from the blood bank. If this is not the first time, then Giant's Blood is burned with no effect. 1995 card text Restore a vampire to full capacity with blood from the blood bank. Only one giant's blood can be played in a game. 2002 card text Restore a vampire to full capacity with blood from the blood bank. Only 1 Giants Blood can be played in a game. LoB Restore a vampire to full capacity with blood from the blood bank. Only one Giants Blood can be played in a game. 2008 Fill a vampire to full capacity with blood from the blood bank. Only one Giants Blood can be played in a game. ---- this much more recent card text makes the ready/uncontrolled situation clearer. past card texts state RESTORE, 2008 onward state FILL. restore indicates the vampire already had blood on it. fill has no such premise. UDHR18/19/27

There is no text on this card specifying non-standard targets (unlike for instance on Enchant Kindred, Govern the Unaligned or Tend the Flock) therefore, it follows the rules. Since it follows the rules, you cannot choose an uncontrolled vampire for Giant's Blood. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

a vampire is still a vampire, be it controlled or not. UDHR18/19/27

Blood Doll Master Put this card on a vampire you control. During his or her master phase, this vampire's controller may move 1 blood from this vampire to his or her pool or from his or her pool to this vampire. Why would such cards state controlled if such text is redundant as per 1.6.1.4? UDHR18/19/27

> mirddes wrote: > a vampire is still a vampire, be it controlled or not. > Whether it's a vampire or not, the rules say that you can't use Giant's Blood on it since it's uncontrolled. > Put this card on a vampire you control. During his or her master phase, this vampire's controller may move 1 blood from this vampire to his or her pool or from his or her pool to this vampire. > > Why would such cards state controlled if such text is redundant as per 1.6.1.4? > So you can't play it on an opponent's vampire. Any deck can win, whether you're using stealth bleed, rush combat, or Soul Gem combos. It doesn't matter if your minions use Auspex, Thaumaturgy, or Melpominee. What matters is the Methuselah uses Presence. That is how deals are made. That is how games are won. No, you misunderstand. I don't want...

> mirddes wrote: > Blood Doll > > Master > > Put this card on a vampire you control. During his or her master phase, this vampire's controller may move 1 blood from this vampire to his or her pool or from his or her pool to this vampire. > > Why would such cards state controlled if such text is redundant as per 1.6.1.4? > To stop you putting the card on someone else's vampire. You can play Giant's Blood on any ready vampire (including ones you do not control). So rather than saying "Fill a ready vampire to capacity" the text relies on the Targeting rule to allow you to only target cards in play. 1.6.1.4 Restricts you to targeting cards which are controlled or 'in play' unless there is specific card text. Uncontrolled vampires are not 'in play' and therefore cannot be targeted by a huge number of other cards. You cannot put discipline cards on uncontrolled vampires due to 1.6.1.4 You cannot play Anachronism on an uncontrolled vampire due to 1.6.1.4 You cannot play Society of Leopold on an uncontrolled vampire due to 1.6.1.4 So you can't choose an uncontrolled vampire for Giant's Blood. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

seems GB has more limited potential than I initially thought. UDHR18/19/27

> mirddes wrote: > seems GB has more limited potential than I initially thought. > It's still an exceptionally good card - there's a reason only one can be played in a game. Automatically refilling any of your vampires is always a good thing, and if you combine it with Villein, you get a lot of extra pool as well. But if you're trying to compare it to an imaginary card that can bring out an 11-cap vampire at no cost, then no, no card will ever live up to that potential. Any deck can win, whether you're using stealth bleed, rush combat, or Soul Gem combos. It doesn't matter if your minions use Auspex, Thaumaturgy, or Melpominee. What matters is the Methuselah uses Presence. That is how deals are made. That is how games are won. No, you misunderstand. I don't want...

parthenon+GB+Villein+Golconda; i say +22pool? living up to that potential.. id put a dozen in every deck. UDHR18/19/27

> mirddes wrote: > parthenon+GB+Villein+Golconda; i say +22pool? > That's a net gain of 9 pool for 11 transfers, 4 master cards and an 11 cap vampire. You'd need 2x villeins to gain another 11 - so, 5x master cards. Playing a single Giant's card and Golconda in any high cap deck makes a lot of sense, but building a deck solely around the combo doesn't. Amaranth Deck Building Tool : VTES NZ : VTES ANZ Facebook

> mirddes wrote: > a vampire is still a vampire, be it controlled or not. > What if it were an Imbued in your uncontrolled? The card doesn't know that it is an Imbued, only you, the player, knows this fact. If you aren't willing to follow the rules, think of that instead. Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/ Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017

> mirddes wrote: > parthenon+GB+Villein+Golconda; i say +22pool?. > In a recent tournament, I did get to use Villein+GB in one Master phase, on Lucian the Perfect, along with Edge of the World in different turns, twice! He was practically swimming in blood. And, with Bitter & Sweet Story in play, I ended up with 20-25 pool worth of minions in play, around 30 pool remaining, and a hand-size of 13 - suffice to say, the "perfect game" for me.

> KevinM wrote: > What if it were an Imbued in your uncontrolled? The card doesn't know that it is an Imbued, only you, the player, knows this fact. > The game has a habit of trusting the player with his face-down cards though: when you play a superior Govern, you don't have to show the target to prove that he is younger (or even that is not an Imbued). The real reason has already been given: by default, nothing targets uncontrolled cards. If a card can do it (like superior Govern), it's written on it.

> Non-existant user wrote: > > > KevinM wrote: > > What if it were an Imbued in your uncontrolled? The card doesn't know that it is an Imbued, only you, the player, knows this fact. > > > The game has a habit of trusting the player with his face-down cards though: when you play a superior Govern, you don't have to show the target to prove that he is younger (or even that is not an Imbued). > The game doesn't "trust". The players "trust" that their fellow players aren't cheating, and since the people that play VTES are all adults, we don't have a cheating problem (like that other CCG). The game and the cards run by a set of rules. Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/ Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017

> KevinM wrote: > > > mirddes wrote: > > a vampire is still a vampire, be it controlled or not. > > > What if it were an Imbued in your uncontrolled? The card doesn't know that it is an Imbued, only you, the player, knows this fact. > > If you aren't willing to follow the rules, think of that instead. > how does imbued change anything??? UDHR18/19/27

Imbued are mortals, not vampires. Things that only affect vampires, don't affect Imbued.

The rule question has been answered, please continue any strategy discussion in the matching subsection. I've also changed the topic name for future reference. See also www.vekn.net/index.php/forum/17-site-a-forum-feedback/35407-why-was-this-topic-locked to know why the topic was locked. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director