Scrounged Secrets
Action Modifier
Nosferatu Antitribu
Only playable during a bleed action.
Choose a card in your prey's ash-heap. This vampire may burn X blood to remove X copies of that card from the game and gain +X bleed against that Methuselah. You may not play action modifiers to increase the amount of this bleed.
The grave soul keeps its own secrets, and takes its own punishment in silence. - Dorothy Dix
Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
I like the concept very much. It boost anti Nos as well which is good, because it's one of the weaker clans. I would just alter it a little. I feel the cost is too high. Also there should be some restriction added (f.e. no more than +3) to avoid +10 bleed modifier vs. some decks (f.e. removing aid from bats vs. weenie animalism) and a sentence that no more bleed modifiers can be played during this action.
Love the card but why exclude regular nosferatu from using it?
If it's too weak it could be changed to burn X blood to remove X+1 card and gain X+1 bleed.
Looks like you're using the CE's Awe cardtext - that's bad !
In your card, the vampire has to pay the cost of X, and then has to burn blood for the effect. Either have it cost 0, or remove the "burn X blood" part
@Pascal: Nah just having a brain explosion and trying not to create some kind of dodgey shennanigans for Mata Hari.
Image Edited: Removed the blood cost. Just burn the blood. No Mata Hari gets Ankara Citadel shennanigans here.
Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
i love it. at first, i was like " thats way too good, you can bleed with servius or julio and go govern+command the beast+scrounged secrets+conditioning to get easy bleeds of 15" but then i realized that (aside from govern+Command 'O beast+conditioning's = 7) the only time you're going to make a bleed get +8 by removing 8 copies of the same card is against girls, and @ 35-45 pool midgame, they can deal with it.
of the common deck types that would be in tears from a card like this, girls, imbued, and kindred spirits get hit the hardest, followed by nocturns, and malk 94. basically, all decks that are aggro enough to need the breaks put on them. sure, lawfirm MIGHT have like 5 majesty in their heap, but they also probably have a deflection in hand. which is my only real concern...
bounce becomes stupid strong if you burn too many cards.
i'd like to see this as a nos and anti nos card, and i think it should have a "no more modifiers can increase the bleed amount" clause, but i'm really sold on the idea. sweet!
First, it's a cemetary based card, so exactly like the other it has no business being !nos. Since it's the exact same argument as the other thread, I will not say more, and hope that responses to this will go to the other thread, to avoid duplication.
The card itself is both interesting and bad. I donb't like card that punish spamming the same card - there is no card limit for a reason. Also, since there is already a permanent that allow to attacvk pool that way (Victim of Habit), I'd better see it as an action modifer and / or reaction canceling card. Like, remove 5 actions modifiers to cancel an action modifier and prevent the same action modifier being played until end of action, something like that.
The action modifier cancel would help against S&B (alway useful, even if thoses decks aren't that threatening now) and can be very nasty against voter captivation (extrememy useful to speed up games).
The reaction cancel would be a reasonable anti-deflection, while being still useful against an array of game-slowing card. However, stealth would look really bad in comparison, which would be a shame.
In both case, I would see this as far more original and opening more strategy than this, which is something of a cross between Trochomancy and Victim of Habit. I prefer original effect to copy pasta.
Ohlmann,
As was said to you by Dorrinal, and I'll repeat for you. Milling cards was ORIGINALLY from the Nosferatu, long before was added as a discipline into VTES.
Knowing secrets and scrounging information is the core skill of Nosferatu vampires. So Sabbat vampires would be more destructive about it, using the secrets they have to cause chaos rather buying favours within the system like the Cam Nos.
There are the "Holds" (e.g. Chiram's Hold, Regarhagen's Hold, Cold Amber's Hold) and rarely get used. I've seen Victim of Habit used ONCE since it was printed. So clearly Victim of Habit is less effective than people would like, otherwise I would see it more often.
@Reverend: Yeah it probably should have the usual "no more bleed" text on it. But to be honest, I'd want it playtested before doing it. And yes, it is designed to hurt spam decks more. If you're playing 4 kindred spirits a turn, this card (if it lands) will cornhole you something fierce... but if you're flicked you can still Spying Mission for your responsible bleed.
Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
I love the idea behind this card, but why not make it work like Revelation of Desire - as in burn X cards to gain +X bleed against THAT Methuselah. Surely such an addition would demand the clause "You cannot play another action modifier to increase this bleed amount" but it allows for very responsible bleeding.
Check out my VTES blog: Gaming with BS
I also host a google doc which separates the TWDA into clans . That means I track how often clans win, which crypt groups get used, and how many people attend events. You can access all of that info here:
> Juggernaut1981 wrote:
> Knowing secrets and scrounging information is the core skill of Nosferatu vampires. So Sabbat vampires would be more destructive about it, using the secrets they have to cause chaos rather buying favours within the system like the Cam Nos.
>
And what is the link with card in the ash heap ? You describe why they have steam tunnel, not why they suddenly take themselves for Harbinger of skulls.
This card lack uniqueness for me. Making another trochomancy with a bit different mechanism is lazy and don't characterize anything.
> Ohlmann wrote:
> And what is the link with card in the ash heap ? You describe why they have steam tunnel, not why they suddenly take themselves for Harbinger of skulls.
>
It seems like a fairly obvious attempt to include Nosferatu / !Nosferatu information gathering, by digging through the opponent's trashcan(s) and other waste.
It isn't a perfect representation, obviously - nothing in V:TES ever is - but it seems pretty reasonable.
> Ohlmann wrote:
> This card lack uniqueness for me. Making another trochomancy with a bit different mechanism is lazy and don't characterize anything.
>
Yes, it just being yet another bleed modifier is probably where I'd want to fiddle with it.
> Ohlmann wrote:
> And what is the link with card in the ash heap ? You describe why they have steam tunnel, not why they suddenly take themselves for Harbinger of skulls.
>
> This card lack uniqueness for me. Making another trochomancy with a bit different mechanism is lazy and don't characterize anything.
>
Why are companies paranoid about shredding documents they plan to discard? So they can keep their secrets.
Why do papparazzi raid the rubbish bins of celebrities? To try find secrets that have been thrown away.
The Ashheap isn't just "where the dead go" but also "where the discarded or damaged or no-longer-useful" things go. So I don't need necromancy to dig through the garbage dump and find a sword or gun or laptop computer.
So that's why it is appropriate. The Nosferatu don't go about trying to dig up the dead, the Gios can do that crap. They go about the refuse and gather together bits and pieces until they have something they can exploit.
Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
> Yes, it just being yet another bleed modifier is probably where I'd want to fiddle with it.
>
See and expanding the focus of the game to "winning by damaging pool by not bleeding" is something I think should happen to this game but there are plenty of people who immediately say "Aaaah its crap! It doesn't bleed!"
Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418