MethA influences out VampA who is Prince of {city}.
MethB has anarch VampB in torpor, who has a Fee Stake:{city}.
VampB must yield the title, but if the Fee Stake card stays on Vamp -- which I believe that it must, having no text indicating that it wouldn't -- then VampB still gets the other effects of the Fee Stake card, correct?
Fee Stake: New York
Action
Requires a ready anarch with capacity above 4. +1 stealth action. (Title.)
(Put this card on the acting anarch to represent the unique anarch title of Baron of New York). This may lead to a contested title. If this anarch is Brujah or Brujah antitribu, he or she gets 1 additional vote in referendums he or she calls. Any vampire can call a referendum to burn this card as a +1 stealth political action. In that referendum, non-anarch titles are worth 1 fewer votes.
[4.2]
"Only ready vampires can contest titles -- vampires in torpor must yield during the untap phase."
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
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In one of my old V:TES strategy books, it says that artificial titles (my term, not theirs) given by cards that are forfeited by contest burn the card that game them the title.
I'm not sure if it's still the current ruling, though.
Any deck can win, whether you're using stealth bleed, rush combat, or Soul Gem combos. It doesn't matter if your minions use Auspex, Thaumaturgy, or Melpominee. What matters is the Methuselah uses Presence. That is how deals are made. That is how games are won.
No, you misunderstand. I don't want...
all effects on a Title card are tied to keeping the title
> LSJ wrote:
> When the title is lost, the card is burned. When the title is contested, the card is out of play.
>
groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/517a2cab2f6152e9/752876fa5e29622f
Wow, I looked for 30 minutes and couldn't find that anywhere. Thanks, Haze.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017
See also groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/86d6155516202cc8/68561000fd3933b2?lnk=gst&q=placeholder+title#68561000fd3933b2
Title cards are "placeholders" for titles.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> KevinM wrote:
> MethA influences out VampA who is Prince of {city}.
> MethB has anarch VampB in torpor, who has a Fee Stake:{city}.
>
> VampB must yield the title, but if the Fee Stake card stays on Vamp -- which I believe that it must, having no text indicating that it wouldn't -- then VampB still gets the other effects of the Fee Stake card, correct?
>
Section 11 of the rulebook has covered this for several years. (Presumably since right around LSJ introduced 'Title' cards.)
> Rulebook wrote:
> Title: A Title card is a placeholder for a title. If the title is yielded or lost, the card is burned. If the title is unique, contests are paid with vampire blood, as normal for titles.
>
Wow, I didn't think to look in the SPECIAL TERMS section of the rulebook for such a thing. Thank you, James.
The rulebook needs a serious rewrite/reorganization.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017
Correct answers here.
If you contest the title, the card is out of play, and you get nothing from it (increased capacity for Praxis, untap for Crusades, ability to be burned for Fee Stakes, ...). It's just no there.
If you yield, it's burned, and what you lost when the contest started doesn't come back.
> Pascal wrote:
> If you contest the title, the card is out of play, and you get nothing from it (... untap for Crusades ...)
>
Incorrect. Crusade's untap is a lingering effect, not an effect of the card being in play.
[LSJ 20060621]
>
> LSJ wrote:
> > The question is, is the "if the withdrawl fails" clause an effect of the
> > card being in play, or a long-term component of the "must attempt to
> > withdraw" effect?
>
> A lingering effect of the "must attempt to withdraw" effect (setting up
> a conditional effect that will occur "on that Methuselah's next untap
> phase", if the condition is met).
>
> The "must attempt to withdraw" clause is an effect of the card being in
> play, of course.
>
> The classic example of the card-in-play's "next phase" template is
> Leandro.
> groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/8e36e4de3e365294
>
> Similarly Flash Grenade, Mummy's Tongue, and Qufur (obviously).
> And also Highway Haven, Chill of Oblivion (if the vampire Freaks and
> then gets into combat and burns the Chill, the Chill still untaps him
> in the discard phase), clan-based Crusades (will untap the vampire even
> if contested), and Blessing of the Name, Command, and Concert Tour
> (interesting only in very odd corner cases), maybe others.
>
Along similar lines, a vampire who got elected Archbishop of Floppy's House (untap if this vampire is weird blah blah) who then became a Cardinal in the same turn would still untap.