The foul Monty

Yo ! My Monty plays amaranth and munches a justicar. Does he become a priscus *before* the blood hunt, allowing him to vote for his survival ? I'm asking because in the old times there were rulings about diablerie being "atomic" and all... Waiting for Pascal's answer Imagination is our only weapon in the war against reality -Jules de Gaultier

> Reyda wrote: > My Monty plays amaranth and munches a justicar. Does he become a priscus *before* the blood hunt, allowing him to vote for his survival ? > After. Monty's text: "If Monty burns a titled vampire, he may become a bishop." (Or a Priscus.) Husamettin uses similar text: "If Husamettin burns a vampire with a contract on him or her, you may go through your library, get a Master: Discipline card, and place it on him." Husamettin's special takes place after the Blood Hunt, if the burning was from diablerie. (And note that this discussion is specifically about atomic diablerie.) [LSJ 20020406] > > LSJ wrote: > > 1) > > Husamettin, (under Tajdid), diablerizes a vamp with a contract on him/her: > > when Husamettin's ability can be used (if at all) ? > > before the blood hunt vote? > > after? > > After. > > Reyda wrote: > I'm asking because in the old times there were rulings about diablerie being "atomic" and all... > Umm. Are you under the impression that those rulings don't still apply? They're in the rulebook now. (And have been for quite some time.) > Rulebook wrote: > 6.5.5. Diablerie > > ... The steps ... > > The steps of diablerie are treated as a single unit. No effects can be used to interrupt the diablerie; effects may be played either before or after, as appropriate. After diablerie, a blood hunt may be called on the diablerist. >

Mmm, If I were really sure they still apply, then I wouldn't ask ? :/ Actually, rulings change overtime, there were numerous reversals a human being can't really keep track, so i'm asking 'the internets'... beside this, the quote from the rulebook says nothing about specials like monty's... Let's read this : 6.5.5. Diablerie Diablerie is the act of sending another vampire to Final Death by drinking his blood. Only ready vampires can commit diablerie. Vampires marked as Blood Cursed cannot commit diablerie. The vampire committing diablerie is called the diablerist. Diablerie is resolved as follows: All blood on the victim is moved to the diablerist. Blood in excess of his capacity drains off as normal. The diablerist may take any equipment on the victim. The victim is burned (sent to his owner's ash heap). Any cards and counters on him are also burned. Monty's Special should kick in here. Why in the world could it not happen at that precise moment ? It's a mystery. If the victim was older (had a higher capacity) than the diablerist, the diablerist can be given a Discipline. His controller may go through her library, ash heap and hand to get a master Discipline card to put on the diablerist and then reshuffle her library or draw back up to her hand size as necessary. This may increase the diablerist's capacity by 1, but does not automatically give the diablerist a blood to fill that new capacity. If the victim was Red List, the diablerist may receive trophies (see section 11). The steps of diablerie are treated as a single unit. No effects can be used to interrupt the diablerie; effects may be played either before or after, as appropriate. After diablerie, a blood hunt may be called on the diablerist. => There might be something here, but am I using an effect that interrupts diablerie ?? I don't think so ? 6.5.6. The Blood Hunt As stated, vampiric society condemns the act of diablerie. The penalty for committing this act is death, and the method of justice is a blood hunt (called a "wild hunt" by some groups of vampires; the terms are interchangeable), in which the diablerist is hunted down and destroyed by others of his kind. In practice, however, this brand of justice is not always meted out fairly, depending on the connections that the diablerist has. When a vampire commits diablerie, a referendum is automatically conducted to determine if a blood hunt will be called on the diablerist. If the referendum passes, a blood hunt is called, and the diablerist is burned. This referendum is not an action, so it cannot be blocked, and action modifiers and reaction cards cannot be played. Otherwise, this referendum is handled just like any other. => If a vamprie can vote during a diablerie, why in the world monty cannot use the votes he just gained by burning a titled vampire ? sorry for bitching, but I really want to know how it frickin' works. Imagination is our only weapon in the war against reality -Jules de Gaultier

this LSJ post from 2009 seems to completely reverse that 2002 ruling: groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/62b921606cdff6a8/c870acccaef911f4 > > > * do you apply the following effects _after_ step 5 and _before_ the 6.5.6 > > Blood Hunt Referendum : > > Yes to all. > so yes, "those rulings don't still apply," and Monty Coven gets his shiny new title before voting begins. the steps of diablerie can not be interrupted -- the blood hunt referendum used to be the last step of diablerie, but it was later changed to be seperate from the diablerie itself. also, this other ruling suggests that the blood hunt referendum is actually an effect that can be ordered at will: groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/f18569102017c9a4/407bcd3b87595fa8

> Reyda wrote: > Yo ! > My Monty plays amaranth and munches a justicar. Does he become a priscus *before* the blood hunt, allowing him to vote for his survival ? > I'm asking because in the old times there were rulings about diablerie being "atomic" and all... > Waiting for Pascal's answer > Could you be polite enough to post cardtext next time? As I see it, you don't care at all about people answering, or you're too lazy. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

The first post was typed from my phone. I always posted card texts in my previous questions so... Stop picking on me for stupid reasons please. By the way thank you Haze. Imagination is our only weapon in the war against reality -Jules de Gaultier

> Haze wrote: > so yes, "those rulings don't still apply," and Monty Coven gets his shiny new title before voting begins. > The rulings on diablerie being atomic (a single unit, indivisible) do still apply. Indeed, LSJ confirms that in the thread you posted: > LSJ wrote: > The soul gem activates after the diablerie. It, like everything else, does not interrupt the steps of diablerie; those steps are always conducted together as a unit with no interruptions. > The Blood Hunt, however, is not part of the indivisible diablerie. And so the question is about what gets in after the indivisible diablerie: a triggered effect, or the Blood Hunt. (And per the ruling you cite, it's apparently been reversed to be the triggered effects.)

> Reyda wrote: > Yo ! > My Monty plays amaranth and munches a justicar. Does he become a priscus *before* the blood hunt, allowing him to vote for his survival ? > I'm asking because in the old times there were rulings about diablerie being "atomic" and all... > Waiting for Pascal's answer > As said before in this thread, the blood hunt isn't part of the atomic diablerie. Effects that are triggered by the diablerie (Mounty Coven, the blood hunt referendum, ..) are orderable.

> jamesatzephyr wrote: > > > Haze wrote: > > so yes, "those rulings don't still apply," and Monty Coven gets his shiny new title before voting begins. > > > The rulings on diablerie being atomic (a single unit, indivisible) do still apply. Indeed, LSJ confirms that in the thread you posted: > > > LSJ wrote: > > The soul gem activates after the diablerie. It, like everything else, does not interrupt the steps of diablerie; those steps are always conducted together as a unit with no interruptions. > > > The Blood Hunt, however, is not part of the indivisible diablerie. And so the question is about what gets in after the indivisible diablerie: a triggered effect, or the Blood Hunt. (And per the ruling you cite, it's apparently been reversed to be the triggered effects.) > yes that's exactly what i said thanks for repeating me