(This list not meant to be all-encompassing.)
Please list your reasoning below. I'm curious as to what everyone's thoughts might be.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
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Also add Tupdog. Combat I don't mind. but this type of combat just runs amok unless you don't transfer out anyone. There's also the first-turn twin Tup KRC trick.
Agitate Responsibly, but Influence Unduly.
> Squidalot wrote:
> can you add multiple MPA and also event decks please
>
I agree, mainly MPA.
I would also add deck that play too much shattering crescendo, mind rape, sensory deprivation, and/or spirit marionette. Or in general every deck that destroy my minion that can be stopped only by blocking. At least, you can use Delaying tactics on Banish...
Really, it's decks that don't let other people play the game. In terms of most egregious in that category by measure of consistency of causing one specific player to lose, off the top of my head, vamp steal deck.
Winnie deck won't let a prey play the game, rush will often remove a player's ability to play, Brainwash, First Tradition's whole point is to lock players out of the game, Sensory Deprivation, etc. But, Spirit Marionette, Mind Rape, even Temptation fall into some category of being easy enough to pull off with too high of a probability of removing one player's ability to meaningfully participate.
I certainly hate plenty of other decks. Imbued are just tedious, made even more so by the unnecessary whining that often occurs when they see play. Brinksmanship decks would be similar. Walls. And, various that don't come readily to mind.
Traveller Card Game
Of the ones listed in the poll, I only hate the imbued (which I have been ranting on forums about since NoR was published).
Otherwise I agree with ICL, I hate decks that don't let other people play the game. This includes all bad rush-decks and bad wall-decks, but particulary Una Freakshow and Tupdog-rush.
I can´t say I hate minion-stealing decks like Mind Rape or Spirit Marionette, although they´re existance keep me from playing bigcaps unless I´m sure I can defend myself really good. That´s kind of sad.
Also I think the MMPA-decks are too dominant in general, but I can´t say I hate them really.
"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."
I went with Imbued, but truthfully they're a part of the game by now. I never got to accept MMPA decks, though. Anson with 40 masters is just... well, not really this game, I'd care to argue.
The game was pretty much designed to be a multiplayer game with interaction, not a single player master phase with no interaction. I know it's exaggerating the issue, but I kinda feel like that about Girls and stuff.
"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise
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> Stefan wrote:
> Block decks that either times out the table or enters the duel with it's prey and lose.
>
I'd vote for bad wall decks too.
Baron of Frankfurt
> Forhead wrote:
> You need to add "Toolbox without bounce"! That's the devil's work.
>
What IS that? There is alot of talking about this, is it like Brians Akunanse "17 wakes"-deck, or what?
"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."
> Ashur wrote:
>
> > Forhead wrote:
> > You need to add "Toolbox without bounce"! That's the devil's work.
> >
> What IS that?
>
Perhaps some Ahrimanes deck that is not so good at blocking?
Another write-in for dedicated [AUS] Walls.
"Nope, I block. Hands for one."
"Nope, I block that too. Walking Stick for 2."
"Nope, I untap and block that."
"Oh, my turn? I untap my minions and will be ready for you Mr. Predator. I didn't get Smiling Jack, so no Masters to play. I bleed for 1, I know I'll know I'll get blocked, so expect Walking Stick for 2. I move one to an uncontrolled with Montreal, your turn Mr Prey. Please don't oust 3 people, m'kay?"
Intercept-bleed (Stickmen) or Intercept-combat (ANI, Tzimice) are ok......but decks which do nothing but beg to be blsed for 5 at 2 stealth (cause they generate no independent offense) annoy me.
I stopped hating in 2004, before I even knew of vtes, so I didn't vote here.
Decks I dislike to see in tournaments are the ones for which the player keeps rambling for 2 hours how aggravatedly they will put you in torpor with a Darth Vader like voice, but otherwise bleed only for 1. Meh
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@ Kiddo and Ashur. Both of your examples are valid examples. But I might call stuff that plays 4 bounces in 90 cards for "toolbox without bounce" as well, since it's essentially with it.
But Toolboxes without bounce includ but are not limited to: Gangrel, !gangrel, akunanse, nos, !nos, brujah, !brujah, etc etc. The lists goes on. Point being; I really hate facing crappy decks that don't have any place in a tournament enviorment. Typiclly thay end up blocking a few actions, rush once or twice (probably backwards) and then gives its prey to much room to build up. Leading to that players prey likey to win.
That's real frustration for me. Good player playing sleazy tried and true decks - that's what I really like (though sleazy but innovative decks is just as fine).
Isak Esbjörnsson Bjärmark
To be honest, I have grown very tired of the idea that bringing almost any deck without you're at best bringing a crossbow to a gunfight and at worst a bread-knife to a gunfight. I know they're coming, but it doesn't mean I like that they are a major component of the Australian (and I'm assuming worldwide) Meta.
Multi-MPA isn't a big issue in Australia.
Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
I voted for combat decks. Essentially because i play a lot of ally combat decks of various type (vozhd, nephandus, rock cats) that really suck against bruise bleed or a more dedicated combat.
> vragozakas wrote:
> I voted for combat decks. Essentially because i play a lot of ally combat decks of various type (vozhd, nephandus, rock cats) that really suck against bruise bleed or a more dedicated combat.
>
Conversely, when I play combat I am often very frustrated by ally deck that just won't die.
In my humble opinion, the main problem of ally deck tend to be deck able to steal ally. Like with . Since in addition to be the better oust discipline, it's also a toolbox with redirection, ally stealing, vampire stealing, and whatnot
I most hate seeing Imbued. Kill them and then play your game.
Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
-Friedrich Nietzsche
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> Forhead wrote:
> But Toolboxes without bounce includ but are not limited to: Gangrel, !gangrel, akunanse, nos, !nos, brujah, !brujah, etc etc.
>
Yes, and this shows that bounce are very dominant in most tournament metas. I think the Design Team has a real challenge here, to make decks without bounce more playable at tournaments, yet maintaining the themes of the disciplines and clans.
"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."
> Ashur wrote:
>
> > Forhead wrote:
> > But Toolboxes without bounce includ but are not limited to: Gangrel, !gangrel, akunanse, nos, !nos, brujah, !brujah, etc etc.
> >
> Yes, and this shows that bounce are very dominant in most tournament metas. I think the Design Team has a real challenge here, to make decks without bounce more playable at tournaments, yet maintaining the themes of the disciplines and clans.
>
I disagree. I disagree about it being a design challenge and it being so important to maintain discipline + clan themes. And at the very least errata off the blood cost of Lost in Translation by now. It's over due. Time to end this game being so calcified.
> Azel wrote:
> I disagree about it being a design challenge and it being so important to maintain discipline + clan themes. And at the very least errata off the blood cost of Lost in Translation by now. It's over due. Time to end this game being so calcified.
>
How is your reasoning behind this? In a game with thousands of cards, do you think it´s good if every discipline/vamp could do just about anything? I need a bit of calcification to be able to anticipate the table.
I think there are plenty of design space too make non-bouncing vamps more competative _without_ giving everyone they´re own bounce, and I know the Design Team have ideas about this.
"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."
> Ashur wrote:
> How is your reasoning behind this? In a game with thousands of cards, do you think it´s good if every discipline/vamp could do just about anything? I need a bit of calcification to be able to anticipate the table.
>
I wouldn't be so worried about this. Now there is problem when some discplines are for support, combat or ousting etc. Some clans just get the bad ones which doesn't match at all, like getting 3 support discplines. Do you think in a game with thousands of cards it is good to have huge amounts wallpaper cards?
Some discplines could use better offensive or defensive cards. Doesn't have to copy Deflection and Govern but something that fits for the displines. And speaking about discplines that does everything I think dominate does already totally everything what a good decks needs.
why does everyone hate imbued? they're either mediocre to barely playable when built poorly, and they are table poison that everyone with some semblance of a cerebral cortex gets off the table if built well.
i hate stealthbleed at tournaments. i'm always happy when playing combat with dom and i torp and graverob 1 or 2 big vamps from a stealthbleed predator.
my absolute most despised deck to see in a tournament is a really terrible deck cross table. if its built poorly, you have a useless grand predator (making your game all defense if really bad) or a weak grand prey (meaning you have to kick your preys teeth in and stop them from getting an easy 6 pool, hoping to get through them and into an easy 6 pool yourself.)
if a bad/ annoying combo deck is cross table, and the players an idiot, you have to conspire with the players on either side of you (not a terrible strategy, but someones gonna stab someones back...).
in a 4 player, a bad crosstable makes me want to ask if i should have broght a deck for my crosstable too.....
The question is "what decktype do you hate". Not "which decktype do you find most annoying when it's played or built poorly".
I think it's pretty evident that decks that sit like lumps, gain pool and do nothing are annoying. That's not an archtype tho. The Girls... archtype does, contrary to popular believe by those who didn't extensively play it *not* only gain pool. Yes, you can build it like that and then you'd have a bad deck, similar to how you can pilot a totally retarded Beast rush deck with 70 red cards.
Don't confuse "I hate that deck" with "I hate it when people play stupid decks" or "I hate that awful player unless he's my predator/prey".
That said, I voted Imbued for the same reason I voted Direct Intervention - they disrupt the game.
Their mechanics are different, they don't interact well with actual vampire cards and you either can't do anything to them or you completely roll them over.
> Izaak wrote:
> The question is "what decktype do you hate". Not "which decktype do you find most annoying when it's played or built poorly".
>
> I think it's pretty evident that decks that sit like lumps, gain pool and do nothing are annoying. That's not an archtype tho. The Girls... archtype does, contrary to popular believe by those who didn't extensively play it *not* only gain pool. Yes, you can build it like that and then you'd have a bad deck, similar to how you can pilot a totally retarded Beast rush deck with 70 red cards.
>
> Don't confuse "I hate that deck" with "I hate it when people play stupid decks" or "I hate that awful player unless he's my predator/prey".
>
> That said, I voted Imbued for the same reason I voted Direct Intervention - they disrupt the game.
>
> Their mechanics are different, they don't interact well with actual vampire cards and you either can't do anything to them or you completely roll them over.
>
Hey I got a Beast rush deck with 70ish red cards that regularly wins games!
i think the results here are telling us different things... nominally people hate the imbued, which don't work very well at tables, with vampires, or with many cards because they work against it. then everyones else hates something they probably just don't prepare for. what does combat hose? ok, don't play it if you don't have a way around combat. deflection, govern, mindrape.. all awesome. don't want to deal with them? resilient mind, touch of clarity, perfect clarity.... or, i dunno, bleed responisbly and block actions. i con't like strike combat ends, but i play psyche, grapple, blessing of chaos, telepathic tracking and rotschreck. i hate stealthbleed because when i'm prepared for it i never see it and when i play that one in 10 decks i own that doesn't run bounce, its at every table. decks are built to win and keep from losing, and while i have my preferences (i hate playing any s:ce other than earth meld) i deal with everything accordingly, or ignore it, when building a deck. sometimes you just get metagamed. i see that imbued are the logical thing to hate, though. and before i knew any rules about them, i blood to water-ed one with petaniqua and then asked "what does that do to imbued " but yea, reasons why people hate certain things are what i'm interested in seeing after seeing this pole. and imbued-dislikers don't need to explain.... we all already know whats wrong with them, and noone really enjoys seeing them at a table.