card idea - anti-lilith

Manipulate the Zealots Unique Master 2 Requires a titled Sabbat vampire. Put this card in play. Add a counter to this card during your untap phase. During your master phase you may tap this card to add X blood to a ready Sabbat vampire and inflict X damage on each ready Bahari vampire, where X is the number of counters on this card. Any minion may burn all counters on this card as a action. Sabbat. Animals, Wraiths and Zombies Molloy recruits or employs get an additional life.

> Molloy wrote: > Manipulate the Zealots > Unique Master > 2 > Requires a titled Sabbat vampire. > Put this card in play. Add a counter to this card during your untap phase. During your master phase you may tap this card to add X blood to a ready Sabbat vampire and inflict X damage on each ready Bahari vampire, where X is the number of counters on this card. Any minion may burn all counters on this card as a action. > Even without the yellow part, this seems a bit strong because it's a square progression (at turn n, gains (n+1)²-1 blood), even if it's burnable. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

What is the design intent with the card? (Apart from hosing Bahari?) "My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."

Well, it's both an alternative to Lillith to fill yours vampires and a very powerful Bahari hoser. It seem to me that the card will just replace Lillith in all sabbat deck.

> Ohlmann wrote: > an alternative to Lillith to fill yours vampires > I don´t think this game need more cards that create blood/pool right now. better make cards that help people oust. "My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."

> Ashur wrote: > I don´t think this game need more cards that create blood/pool right now. better make cards that help people oust. > I completely agree. At least, Smiling jack kill peoples !

I don't think Bahari keyword needs anything against it. It only comes from 2 cards and was just put in for story line reasons. I don't think that keyword was meant to be focused on (there are so many existing themes which could use more cards anyway). Making anti Bahari cards are too one dimensional. Better to think cards which punishes vampires in low blood. For example Shattering Crescendo wouldn't be so good without Villen (+Lilith) metagame. Althought the suggestion to make Lilith's Blessing work only as first master phase action is what card should have been in first place.

Also, ignoring the bahari hosing effect, the amount of blood given by this is obscene. You can hope to use faerie ward 3+ per turn with Marconius and this card quite easily ; hope you have votes to oust

> Molloy wrote: > Manipulate the Zealots > Unique Master > 2 > Requires a titled Sabbat vampire. > If Lilith is sufficiently powerful that it requires an anti-Lilithy, why do only the Sabbat get a silver bullet? Is it not equally powerful when my Ravnos deck is being messed around by a Lilith-using opponent?

design intent: You can't just make a card that just hoses the Bahari. Such a card is neither necessary nor worth playing. This is intended to be slightly better than a hunting ground, to make it worth playing, with an additional anti-Bahari function that, since Lilith's Blessing is currently the only relevant Bahari thing, is most harmful to Bahari low on blood. What I read about the Bahari suggests they are not too far from the Sabbat in their habits, and that a savvy Sabbat elder might be able to manipulate the massochistic tendencies of the Bahari. Plus, word around the watercooler is that Sabbat titles ain't worth what they ought to be. I don't think the escalating blood gain is that big a deal. It just means somebody needs to burn the counters every three turns or so. That encourages interaction between players. If it's too much, all it takes is a little amending. Put this card in play. During your untap phase, add a counter to this card if it has fewer than three counters. During your master phase you may tap this card to add X blood to a ready Sabbat vampire and inflict X damage on each ready Bahari vampire, where X is the number of counters on this card. Any minion may burn all counters on this card as a action. or Put this card in play. Add a counter to this card during your untap phase. During your master phase you may burn X counters from this card to add X blood to a ready Sabbat vampire and inflict X damage on each ready Bahari vampire. Any minion may burn all counters on this card as a action. Sabbat. Animals, Wraiths and Zombies Molloy recruits or employs get an additional life.

> Molloy wrote: > I don't think the escalating blood gain is that big a deal. It just means somebody needs to burn the counters every three turns or so. That encourages interaction between players. If it's too much, all it takes is a little amending. > Well, part of the problem is that it help defend itself - if you gain 3 blood per turn on one of your vampire, he may be able to stop each and every burn attempt. The quintessential problem being Faerie ward. Also, even with the new version, at max power it's a lillith blessing per turn, without condition. So there is some kind of being worse than the original problem. You may stick to the 1 blood / turn, but make the hunting ground cheaper ?