Card idea: The Devourer (vampire)

Name: The Devourer Cardtype: Vampire Clan: Tzimisce Capacity: 7 Discipline: AUS POT FOR PRO VIC Sabbat. Red List: During your untap phase, burn a younger vampire you control. If you do, The Devourer gains 1 capacity, +1 strength and +1 bleed for the remainder of the game, and all the blood that vampire had. He cannot have or use equipment. Blood hunts cannot be called on him. Thoughts? Comments? Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

you should add: During your untap phase, burn a younger vampire you control or burn a Devourer.

First thought: Nice synergy with Tupdog if you use them as blockers. Second thought: If the average game is 12 turns he will have a capacity of 17 at the end of it... Third thought: Hmm, vamps burn, so you can use necromancy to bring them back.

I love the . With gr4 tzimisce he could be jolly good fun. More to the point, his disavantadge is pretty benign, but the discipline spread is not too sexy anyway. Useful, probably not broken, may be the source of some stupid combo deck but is unlikely to. @Alek : he is very weak and unuseable if he must destroy another vampire.

Devourer + Jayne Jacobx8 + Soul Gem = win ? I see you wanted to remove the Soul Gem tricks with him, but the other guys can still have it. Also: Would it be too big a cost for Khazar? After 3 burns, he can get the Enkil Cog (and has plenty untap).

> Pascal wrote: > Devourer + Jaynex8 + Soul Gem = win ? > I suspect you mean Jacob, The Glitch, not Jayne Jonestown.

Ah, yes. That other 2-cap with a superior discipline

While strong, what is supposed to be game breaking ? Having a 10-cap with 3 bleed at turn 4, like if you had influenced an inner circle ? It take a long time to have something that bleed a lot, and he don't have impressive stealth capacity. So, it seem less directly brutal than a traditional turbo deck, while having the same vulnerability.

> alek wrote: > you should add: During your untap phase, burn a younger vampire you control or burn a Devourer. > No. He must burn another vampire if any. He can't burn himself (so nothing happens if he's alone). > Pascal wrote: > Devourer + Jayne Jacobx8 + Soul Gem = win ? > > I see you wanted to remove the Soul Gem tricks with him, but the other guys can still have it. > What would be your crypt? 4 Devourers and 8 Jacob? What if the Soul Gem on Jacob reveals a Devourer? Soul Gem tricks don't work there, unless I missed something. (And forget about Recruitment, it's too complicated). Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Chaitan wrote: > Second thought: If the average game is 12 turns he will have a capacity of 17 at the end of it... > How do you produce the 12 vampires he'll eat? Embrace? 1-cap guys? Anyway, it's not automatic. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Those kind of cards with weird new effects are hardest to play test and something might slip through playtesting. It also limits future card design because you have to think how some cards affects with The Devourer. Like some new cards (lets say cheap sabbat style embrace with shock troops theme) could be totally balanced without already exciting card with weird special. Minor point but my point is more what is wrong with more simple design. It is easiest to design wonky cards with weird specials. Designing a solid cards which offers new strategy or card choices without needing completely new abilites or mechanisms are the best cards IMO and also hardest to design.

I would replace one of his out of clans with ANI, probably either the POT or PRO, he has VIC anyway so he doesn't get much from PRO.

> Klaital wrote: > I would replace one of his out of clans with ANI, probably either the POT or PRO, he has VIC anyway so he doesn't get much from PRO. > It was more for the flavor than a technical necessity, though it opens some interesting options (protean being very versatile). > Protean is a Discipline that gives vampires the ability to change form, from growing feral claws to evaporating into a cloud of mist. Protean is the signature Discipline of the Gangrel and many of its powers are geared towards surviving in the wild or evoking the strengths of natural predators > Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Klaital wrote: > he has VIC anyway so he doesn't get much from PRO. > Yes and no. He gain Flesh of marble and a lot more (costly) stealth option. That open some interesting long range vissicitude option.

> Ankha wrote: > > > Chaitan wrote: > > Second thought: If the average game is 12 turns he will have a capacity of 17 at the end of it... > > > How do you produce the 12 vampires he'll eat? Embrace? 1-cap guys? Anyway, it's not automatic. > 10 vamps (takes ~2 turns to influence also). Anyway, tupdog is the perfect lunch for the Devourer. Just bring out 1 per minion phase and you get a free Effective Management. If it is not automatic then the vamp is a superior version of Al-Muntaquim, The Avenger. +bleed, +capacity and +strength and bloodgain on top of not being restricted to caitiff.

> Chaitan wrote: > Anyway, tupdog is the perfect lunch for the Devourer. Just bring out 1 per minion phase and you get a free Effective Management. > No. Read again tupdog, he does not work that way. > Chaitan wrote: > If it is not automatic then the vamp is a superior version of Al-Muntaquim, The Avenger. > He is automatic however. He just don't eat iteself if nobody is available. Also, the interesting part of Al Muntaquim is its discipline, since he have sup' temporis and inf' obfuscate. The devourer have a less interesting line up, even if it does more construction point.