Censorship?

Yeeee! Censorship!

> Izaak wrote: > Yeeee! Censorship! > It's called moderation. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Nah. Moderation is enforcing rules if they have been broken. Since the forum rules don't have any rules about bad language, fuck is perfectly fine to say. In fact, according to the forum rules there is a profanity filter installed. Which I don't think there is, but the rules say it is. So at best, it's moderator abuse. Also, since this used to be a non-moderated usenet community for the better part of 2 decades, so regardless of forum rules, any moderation that doesn't involve removing spam bots is bad.

> Izaak wrote: > Nah. Moderation is enforcing rules if they have been broken. Since the forum rules don't have any rules about bad language > Damnans already linked forum rules, which in fact state: When posting on V:EKN, it's important to always be polite and use common sense "Polite" should be enough, for everyone using common sense, to understand that bad words aren't desiderable at all here, and indeed forum rules reflect that Some tolerance, by common sense, is always given in this respect but going blatantly against netiquette with vulgar conversation won't be tolerated thanks Emiliano vekn.net administrators staff

> Izaak wrote: > Nah. Moderation is enforcing rules if they have been broken. Since the forum rules don't have any rules about bad language, fuck is perfectly fine to say. In fact, according to the forum rules there is a profanity filter installed. Which I don't think there is, but the rules say it is. > > So at best, it's moderator abuse. > > Also, since this used to be a non-moderated usenet community for the better part of 2 decades, so regardless of forum rules, any moderation that doesn't involve removing spam bots is bad. > The forum software allows for banning certain words. This does not mean that such banning is used. As for rules, "polite" explicitly implies avoiding the use of profanities. Jussi Hattara Webmaster Extraordinaire Finnish Politics!

> Izaak wrote: > Nah. Moderation is enforcing rules if they have been broken. > It's your definition. "Moderation is the process of eliminating or lessening extremes. It is used to ensure normality throughout the medium on which it is being conducted. Common uses of moderation include: - A moderator may remove unsuitable contributions from the website, forum or IRC channel they represent in accordance with their moderation system." etc. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moderation Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> nc-italy wrote: > > > Izaak wrote: > > Nah. Moderation is enforcing rules if they have been broken. Since the forum rules don't have any rules about bad language > > > Damnans already linked > forum rules, which in fact state: > When posting on V:EKN, it's important to always be polite and use common sense > > "Polite" should be enough, for everyone using common sense, to understand > that bad words aren't desiderable at all here, and indeed forum rules reflect that > Some tolerance, by common sense, is always given in this respect but going blatantly against netiquette with vulgar conversation won't be tolerated > > thanks > So what gives you the right to determine what is and is not polite? Moderator status on a meaningless forum? If it';s common sense (as you imply), will you now also start editing all KevinM's impolite posts, which is about a third of them, the one he will likely post in this thread not included? And what about mine? Like this one maybe? FWIW (which is, I'm full aware, about naught), I didn't think the edited post was out of line or impolite if you actually read the context. Here is what happened: Player A implicately accuses an unknown "local" player of broadcasting and enforcing incorrect rules and does so in a rather bitter tone. Player B, implying he knows more about the situation, responds in a "what the fuck are you talking about" way and gets modded for being impolite. Don't make me laugh. That's not moderation, that's a moderator choosing sides and abusing his forum permissions to cover it. Other people call that censorship. IF and only IF you think this forum is not the right place for this little conversation between two posters, then you simply delete both and be done with it. You don't get to choose sides and leave what suits you.

> Izaak wrote: > So what gives you the right to determine what is and is not polite? > Because it's their forum. They made it, they own it. Do you disagree with this? If it were MY forum, I'd allow every word and statement to be made and not censor any of it until a personal attack was made, and then I'd delete the entire post, not revise it, and I'd explain to the person why their post was deleted. But it's not my forum and I don't run anything here. And other than your continued attacks on me -- notice how you attacked me first? -- I don't see anything on VEKN.net that needs to be deleted. Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/ Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017

The Forum Rules now state this: Flaming "Flaming" is a broad category consisting of various forms of malicious attacks directed at another person. Flaming can consist of, but isn’t limited to, racism, sexism, trolling (attempting to get another user to flame you), derogatory statements, inappropriate language, or other forms of communication that lack the manners and decency needed when posting on this forum. Flaming is not allowed in posts, signatures, avatars, locations, custom titles, etc. I suppose the "what the fuck are you talking about" statement could be encompassed in this category of offenses. Profanity generally is considered inappropriate, particularly when directed at another person. Just for comparison, FIFA says that a send off (red card) is warranted for: using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures YMMV When you are anvil, be patient; when a hammer, strike. pckvtes.wordpress.com @pckvtes

Think this forum is restrictive? As a teacher in NSW Australia, I can get officially reprimanded for using the language you have used on this forum in front of a student. So asking you to tone it down, play nice and cut the swearing isn't that much to ask really. It's free to be nice. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

> KevinM wrote: > > > Izaak wrote: > > So what gives you the right to determine what is and is not polite? > > > Because it's their forum. They made it, they own it. Do you disagree with this? > Given the purpose of the forum and its history on usenet, yes. > If it were MY forum, I'd allow every word and statement to be made and not censor any of it until a personal attack was made, and then I'd delete the entire post, not revise it, and I'd explain to the person why their post was deleted. But it's not my forum and I don't run anything here. > Exactly. > And other than your continued attacks on me -- notice how you attacked me first? -- I don't see anything on VEKN.net that needs to be deleted. > I did that on purpose to get the point accross. Also: continued?

> jhattara wrote: > The forum software allows for banning certain words. This does not mean that such banning is used. As for rules, "polite" explicitly implies avoiding the use of profanities. > This raises an interesting question: do you know what the word "explicit" means? I don't think that it applies to this situation, and the phrase "explicitly implies" is an oxymoron. Outside of public institutions (i.e. government), certain homes, and many workplaces (depending on their stated policies), some profanity is seen as acceptable. When it comes to insults, I agree with Kevin that that's where a line is crossed. Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one. -Friedrich Nietzsche brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/

> Izaak wrote: > Yeeee! Censorship! > Most people who complain about censorship don't know what REAL censorship is. I was born in a country where making the slightest offending statement about an official or a military police officer leads you to jail with a good bruising. I can't help but smile when i see this thread, sorry. You are making a big case out of nothing... does removing swearing makes a forum better ? Maybe. In all case, it's not real censorship... Imagination is our only weapon in the war against reality -Jules de Gaultier

I find it hard to believe that someone wants to hold up Usenet as an example of how discussion should take place. As for moderated forums, they are all different. For one game, it's common for someone to post to a thread over a year old. On another, someone doing that (or posting to a thread with no post for a month or two) will have the post deleted, the thread will get locked, and the moderator will issue a public admonishment to create a new topic rather than cause "thread necromancy". I see the ideal being some level of moderation between extremes. Traveller Card Game

> Reyda wrote: > > > Izaak wrote: > > Yeeee! Censorship! > > > Most people who complain about censorship don't know what REAL censorship is. > I was born in a country where making the slightest offending statement about an official or a military police officer leads you to jail with a good bruising. I can't help but smile when i see this thread, sorry. You are making a big case out of nothing... does removing swearing makes a forum better ? Maybe. In all case, it's not real censorship... > Actually I wasn't the on making a new thread out of it. That was done by a moderator and as I am unable to delete my own threads it's here for everyone. I just commented on it because I think it's pathetic that a moderator picks sides in an argument between two players before it even starts and explicitly makes this clear for everyone to read. I then responded to the posts claiming it was mere moderation, which it was not. If it was moderation, it would have been deleted without further notice. Which it was not. > I find it hard to believe that someone wants to hold up Usenet as an example of how discussion should take place. > Why is this weird? It worked for 17 years. In fact, one of the first threads ever posted on this forum, started by Peter Bakija, was people agreeing we didn't need moderation other than deleting spambot threads.