Political action (for Sabbat?): Sacrifice for the leader

Sacrifice for the leader Political action (Requires an Archbishop, Priscus, Cardinal, Regent) Worth 1 Vote Choose a (sabbat) vampire in play. Succesful referendum gives that vampire blood up to his capacity. This is a strong vote letting you bloat. It could be a way to make Sabbat vote stronger (in giving them a good way to bloat) and counter their disadvantage of not having Parity Shift and Reckless Agitation. It is better than Fifth Tradition, although you have to push through a referendum. The advantage over Voter Captivation is that you don't need vast majority in vote to fill up. The disadvantage is that nothing else happens for winning the referendum (no damage on other meth's pool or banishing a vampire for example). Villein and this vote is a very good way of bloating for big'uns, only comparable to Renewed Vigor, an action only the scarce Salubri can do. So limiting it to Sabbat would be better. That could give them an edge in the comparision to Camarilla. What do you think. Baron of Frankfurt

I am not so big fan of strong cards which creates blood from nothing with no heavy restrictions (like voter captivation). They lead to more timeouts and slower games. I would like to see that vote more like stronger version of Free States Rant which moves some blood from other vampires to your vampires.

> Joscha wrote: > Sacrifice for the leader > Political action > (Requires an Archbishop, Priscus, Cardinal, Regent) > Worth 1 Vote > Choose a (sabbat) vampire in play. Succesful referendum gives that vampire blood up to his capacity.What do you think. > Villein Moncada for all but 1. Villein Polonia for all but 1. Call Sacrifice for the leader, Polonia chooses Moncada. Currently passing by 6. Bewitching Oration and it's +10. Voter capt. Net gain: 20 pool. Final state: 19 blood on both vampires. Number of cards played: 4 (5 with Bewitching, but at that point, you just need more transfers). Situation B. Involve Undele.

> Surreal wrote: > I would like to see that vote more like stronger version of Free States Rant which moves some blood from other vampires to your vampires. > Wow, wouldn't that be cool? But that even makes it stronger, isn't it? Because not only your minion gets blood, other minions are losing it. That way?: Sacrifice for the leader Requires a Sabbat vampire. Allocate X points among one or more ready vampires, where X is half the capacity of the acting vampire (rounded up). No more than 3 points can be allocated to each vampire (?). Successful referendum means each vampire moves 1 blood to the acting vampire for each point assigned. That way the name of the card has to be changed, because the robbed vampires don't sacrifice their blood, it is stolen from them. Maybe "Blood for the leader" would be more fitting. Baron of Frankfurt

> Pascal wrote: > > Villein Moncada for all but 1. > Villein Polonia for all but 1. > Call Sacrifice for the leader, Polonia chooses Moncada. > Currently passing by 6. Bewitching Oration and it's +10. > Voter capt. > > Net gain: 20 pool. > Final state: 19 blood on both vampires. > Number of cards played: 4 (5 with Bewitching, but at that point, you just need more transfers). > > Situation B. > Involve Undele. > Urgh, broken. But then you'll never hear whining about Parity Shift again . Baron of Frankfurt

I would say "need a sabbat title". And the bloat problem is still here.

> Joscha wrote: > > That way?: > Sacrifice for the leader > Requires a Sabbat vampire. > Allocate X points among one or more ready vampires, where X is half the capacity of the acting vampire (rounded up). No more than 3 points can be allocated to each vampire (?). Successful referendum means each vampire moves 1 blood to the acting vampire for each point assigned. > Or something like: Sacrifice for the leader Political action (Requires an Archbishop, Priscus, Cardinal, Regent) Choose a Vampire who has more blood than this acting vampire. Allocate X of that vampires blood between 1 or more other Vampires, where X is half the capacity of the acting Vampire (rounded up). Successful referendum means the chosen Vampires loses that blood, and it is allocated as you announced. EDIT: I just don't like that this card would make villeining your own vampires heavy even more important. Maybe add clause "This vampire takes 2 damage if this referendum fails" so villeined vampires with 1 blood end to torpor. EDIT Would cool to make that card also political hunt action if rules allow that.

I would add inquisitor to the requirement and "a meth can play it once each game", that could make it similar to giant's blood. And to make it a real "sacrifice": "the acting vampire takes 1 aggr. damage at the end of the action" Cheers!

> miketheknife wrote: > I would add inquisitor to the requirement and "a meth can play it once each game", that could make it similar to giant's blood. > > And to make it a real "sacrifice": "the acting vampire takes 1 aggr. damage at the end of the action" > > Cheers! > This would make the card balanced, usable, fun, strong and Sabbat-like. First version and second version are just... broken bad.

> miketheknife wrote: > I would add inquisitor to the requirement and "a meth can play it once each game", that could make it similar to giant's blood. > > And to make it a real "sacrifice": "the acting vampire takes 1 aggr. damage at the end of the action" > > Cheers! > I like the idea of this card as long as it doesn't work too easily or cheaply. Another version might be... Purity in the Ranks (there is already a card called sacrifice) Political Action Requires a Sabbat Vampire Select another sabbat vampire. If this referendum is successful, that vampire gains blood to his or her capacity. Sabbat vampires get an additional vote during this referendum. If this referendum fails or is cancelled during the action, burn this acting vampire. (The above version probably has too much text, but may have some good ideas) Another possible requirement to deal with a common complaint right now, which is recursion: Like Reinforcements- "Remove this card from the game, even if the action is canceled or blocked or the referendum fails." Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one. -Friedrich Nietzsche brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/

> Joscha wrote: > Wow, wouldn't that be cool? But that even makes it stronger, isn't it? Because not only your minion gets blood, other minions are losing it. > > That way?: > Sacrifice for the leader > Requires a Sabbat vampire. > Allocate X points among one or more ready vampires, where X is half the capacity of the acting vampire (rounded up). No more than 3 points can be allocated to each vampire (?). Successful referendum means each vampire moves 1 blood to the acting vampire for each point assigned. > I've been tossing a very similar idea around in my head for a while, as an obvious alternative to Parity Shift. In my head, it required a significant title (possibly including Seraph, which isn't actually a title), and perhaps used the same X = Methuselahs calculation as Parity Shift. A capacity-based option is probably okay, although it remains strong in the end game. I wasn't happy with the ability to repeat this so much, though. Personally, I'd want a restriction that made it a strong play in small quantities, but possibly self-limiting. Once per turn still feels a bit easy. Maybe a "Put this card on this acting vampire. A vampire who has a Card Name on him cannot take the Card Name action." That doesn't feel quite right either. I might also restrict it to taking blood from vampires who are younger than the acting vampire.

Elder stealing from Younger Version... Sacrifice for the Leader Political Action Requires an Inquisitor, Seraph or Cardinal Choose a younger Sabbat vampire controlled by another Methuselah which has more blood than this acting vampire. Transfer X blood, where X is the number of Methuselahs in the game, from the chosen vampire to the acting vampire. The acting vampire cannot gain blood or pool from any action modifiers during this action. Younger sacrificing to the Elder boss... Sacrifice for the Leader Political Action Requires a Sabbat vampire. Choose a titled older vampire with less blood than this acting vampire. Transfer all the blood from this acting vampire to the chosen vampire and put this acting vampire in torpor. The acting vampire cannot gain blood or pool from any action modifiers during this action. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

> Juggernaut1981 wrote: > Younger sacrificing to the Elder boss... > Sacrifice for the Leader > Political Action > Requires a Sabbat vampire. > Choose a titled older vampire with less blood than this acting vampire. Transfer all the blood from this acting vampire to the chosen vampire and put this acting vampire in torpor. The acting vampire cannot gain blood or pool from any action modifiers during this action. > The only particular advantage this has over Rave is that it could give the blood to a vampire in torpor. Rave -- Type: Action -- Cost: None -- Text: +1 stealth action. Move as much blood (or life) and/or equipment from the acting minion to any ready vampires you control.

> brandonsantacruz wrote: > > > miketheknife wrote: > > I would add inquisitor to the requirement and "a meth can play it once each game", that could make it similar to giant's blood. > > > > And to make it a real "sacrifice": "the acting vampire takes 1 aggr. damage at the end of the action" > > > > Cheers! > > > I like the idea of this card as long as it doesn't work too easily or cheaply. Another version might be... > > Purity in the Ranks (there is already a card called sacrifice) > Political Action > Requires a Sabbat Vampire > Select another sabbat vampire. If this referendum is successful, that vampire gains blood to his or her capacity. Sabbat vampires get an additional vote during this referendum. If this referendum fails or is cancelled during the action, burn this acting vampire. > > (The above version probably has too much text, but may have some good ideas) > > Another possible requirement to deal with a common complaint right now, which is recursion: > > Like Reinforcements- "Remove this card from the game, even if the action is canceled or blocked or the referendum fails." > I think we must be careful not to make a card that is wallpaper right away. I see the bloat-problem, but we rather just forget about the card than make it unplayable. I would never add that card if my vampire would burn because of a failed vote or a delaying tactics. The aggravated damage after the succesful referendum is cool and fit the background, but is still too drastic and makes the card not worth adding to a deck. I like the remove from game-clause to prevent recursion or a once-per-game to prevent multiple playing of that card. The transfer X from another minion is a good idea too, but I'd make it possible regardless if the target has more blood or not. I mean it is not damage and 'just' blood transfer, that nobody puts in torpor right away. If this card is playable just once per game you maybe even could leave out Jugger's 'no action mod. during this action'. Baron of Frankfurt

> jamesatzephyr wrote: > > > Juggernaut1981 wrote: > > Younger sacrificing to the Elder boss... > > Sacrifice for the Leader > > Political Action > > Requires a Sabbat vampire. > > Choose a titled older vampire with less blood than this acting vampire. Transfer all the blood from this acting vampire to the chosen vampire and put this acting vampire in torpor. The acting vampire cannot gain blood or pool from any action modifiers during this action. > > > The only particular advantage this has over Rave is that it could give the blood to a vampire in torpor. > Rave -- Type: Action -- Cost: None -- Text: +1 stealth action. > Move as much blood (or life) and/or equipment from the acting minion to any ready vampires you control. > Actually, it also works cross-table. So you can prop up a cross-table GPrey or GPred if you wanted. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

Move blood between your vampires is boring idea. I think this card should fulfill 3 criteria: a Leader, a Sacrifice and some usefullness. For example, "leader" - gain blood / gain pool. "Sacrifice" - 1 agg damage to caller. "Usefullness" - minion damage / pool damage. Sacrifice to the Leader Political action. Require sabbat vampire. Choose a titled sabbat vampire and assign up to 2 points between two other minions. Chosen titled sabbat vampire gains 3 blood, acting vampire takes 1 aggravated damage, and each minion with a point assigned either takes 3 unpreventable damage or his controller burns 2 pool. - gain 3 blood - torporize own minion - deal 6 minion damage or 4 pool damage

There is a bug in your wording: you cannot do pool damage to a player with no minions. Better word it like Revolutionary council: Sacrifice to the Leader Political action. Require sabbat vampire. Choose a titled sabbat vampire and allocate 2 points between two other minions and methuselahs. Successful referendum means that the chosen titled sabbat vampire gains 3 blood, the acting vampire takes 1 aggravated damage, each minion takes 3 unpreventable damage for each point assigned and each methuselah burns 2 pool for each point assigned.

> Non-existant user wrote: > There is a bug in your wording: you cannot do pool damage to a player with no minions. > That's not necessarily a bad thing. It's quite nice if powerful political actions have a built-in self-limiting mechanism. e.g. it's hard to chain multiple Parity Shift in one turn without passing your opponent's pool total. A powerful political action that is good in the early game but trickier in the late game (when all the vampires are dead) would be a pretty neat thing to have, so it might require you allocate points to ready vampires, or ready minions. On the flip-side, you can also have cards that are okay in the early game but great in the late game - Foreshadowing Destruction being a good example here. The DOM level is unplayable until you get people low-ish on pool, and then it can be great. A political action that was a bit 'meh' in the early game, and pretty strong in the late game, would be neat too.

I rather see new cards that ousts people than more bloat. "My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."

> jamesatzephyr wrote: > On the flip-side, you can also have cards that are okay in the early game but great in the late game - Foreshadowing Destruction being a good example here. The DOM level is unplayable until you get people low-ish on pool, and then it can be great. > All you have to do is wait till its down to 3 players, have your Govern + Conditioning bleed against your prey at 9 deflected to your predator, play Foreshadowing, and look at that player wondering if eating that bleed for 6 wouldn't be a good idea after all.

> jamesatzephyr wrote: > A powerful political action that is good in the early game but trickier in the late game (when all the vampires are dead) > Let's be honest : usually, if your prey have no ready minion, you don't need this vote to destroy him. Except if really you have no bleed capability.

> Pascal wrote: > All you have to do is wait till its down to 3 players, have your Govern + Conditioning bleed against your prey at 9 deflected to your predator, play Foreshadowing, and look at that player wondering if eating that bleed for 6 wouldn't be a good idea after all. > *burps*

> Ohlmann wrote: > Let's be honest : usually, if your prey have no ready minion, you don't need this vote to destroy him. Except if really you have no bleed capability. > Well, having a good vote (or other good action) will speed things along. A prey on 8 pool may take a couple of turns to eat through, giving your grand-prey unnecessary time to prepare, and so on. That's why, from a design perspective, I quite like cards that force you to make interesting choices - do I play a lot of these, and maybe choke on them? do I discard this now? do I call it on my grand-prey, but that means my prey doesn't get ousted just yet?