Best combat combo

Okay. What is the best Combat combo! What do you think? Vampire + cards I personally like Frere Marc with Flesh of Marble + Wolf Clawes + Blood Fury Prevent, unpreventable aggro. But it has flaws. Any ideas?

Aid from Bats + Carrion Crows, very simple and very effective. But that would be boring answer so lets say Domain of Evernight + Outside the Hourglass. Both are good cards on their own also so you don't have plan deck around that combo and that is also big fear factor for blockers.

aid from bats + carrion crow + superior or inferior terror frenzy. I am death. Paul Kersey, Death Wish

I have a soft spot for Elimelech + Flamethrower. It's a bit overkill, a lot of brute power for too much pool. On the exact opposite, unflinching persistence + disarm on a mid-cap. Simple, pretty efficient and somewhat resistant, a lot of option to improve it.

Gerald Windham + Weather Control + Trap + Skin of Rock + Sword of Nuln (plus he has really quite nice voet defence, ... I mean what is not to like?) Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

Mind of the wilds + chiropteran marauder OR Outside the hourglass + Domain of evernight

carrion crows, apparition, and a trap

weighted walking stick + baal's bloody talons + as you see fit

Mirror Walk / Obedience.

Anathema + Vitae Block + Blissful Agony + Vitae Block

torn signport-> pursuit-> immortal grapple? it doest alot with only 3 cards. - I have bitten the mighy judge-beard.

Joaquin Murietta + Zip Gun Overkill is highly underrated. You know, like in computor games and such.

Lambach + Trap/Telepathic Tracking Basilia/Samantha/Lambach + Quick Jab Elimelech + Bone Spur/Claws of the Dead/Wolf Claws Meshenka + x-times Horrid Form + Telepathic Tracking Chiropteran Marauder + Breath of the Dragon War Ghoul/Ossian War Ghoul/Ossian + Trap/Target Vitals -alf <INSERT CLEVER QUOTATION HERE>

Julius + Mummify (after blocking with Eyes of the Dead)

illusions of the kindred + Drawing out the beast + grapple +burning wrath + amaranth = fun

agg + rötschreck domain of evernight + outside the hourglass (mentioned before) Lidingö Scourge

Hektor I win B)

Concealed Weapon + .44 Magum

Earthmeld Who said it had to be offensive combat?

> chaitan wrote: > Earthmeld > > Who said it had to be offensive combat? > That is, but in the steaming pile of 'bovine anal core sample' variety... Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

Sup. Outside the Hourglass (+inf. Outside the Hourglass) + Disarm. Covers maneuvers to long, S:CE, Skin of Steel and most hitback. Inferior OtH can be substituted with Majesty at the cost of some consistency.

> Suoli wrote: > Sup. Outside the Hourglass (+inf. Outside the Hourglass) + Disarm. Covers maneuvers to long, S:CE, Skin of Steel and most hitback. Inferior OtH can be substituted with Majesty at the cost of some consistency. > You can't play Disarm at long range, even if you dealt damage at a moment the range was long. So it doesn't work against maneuvers to long (unless you maneuver back to close of course, is it what you meant?). It works against the rest. groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/8fdf1aa852058e71/dae9bf959c1aed41?lnk=gst&q=outside+the+hourglass+disarm#dae9bf959c1aed41 Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > So it doesn't work against maneuvers to long (unless you maneuver back to close of course, is it what you meant?). > Yes, although I admit it wasn't very obvious.

disarm.pushingthelimit.immortalgrapple.tornsignpost.com/

1) Gr 1-2 Tremere (Ulugh Begh, Cardano, Muaziz) Dawn Operations, Weather control plus skin of night 2) Konrad Fleischer with dawn ops, weather control 3) Frere Marc, Eric Kressida, Lernean wolf claws blood rage/blood fury. 4) Giovanni Gr 5 Giovanni Del Georgio immortal grapple, dead hand, wolf claws, and disarm 5) Sha Ennu illusions of the Kindred (himself), liquefy the mortals coil, trap/telepathic tracking, eat (no blood hunt as the illusion does it, i know crap to pull off but did it twice) 6) Tupdog torn signpost, raking talons, immortal grapple (enough said) 7) the most efficinet and best of course as someone pointed out...Carrion crows, aid from bats (truly enough said, if you get away today the next 2-3 rushes you wont)

> blackday wrote: > 1) Gr 1-2 Tremere (Ulugh Begh, Cardano, Muaziz) Dawn Operations, Weather control plus skin of night > 2) Konrad Fleischer with dawn ops, weather control > In the old days, this was a good combo. But ever since Nights of Reckoning and the existence of the Imbued, the deck has fallen far. I once had a grandpredator play Dawn Op / Weather Control. Unfortunately he was able to do nothing against his prey (my predator), an Imbued deck, since 1 unpreventable agg is sort of meaningless to an ally. pckvtes.wordpress.com @pckvtes

True, but the Tremere should be able to finish them with thefts, and if they reach 2nd round blood to water is real nasty. I have a friend who used it in his anathema deck and makes swiss cheese of my imbued. Sadly Konrad would be hard pressed if he came across an imbued. I forgot to mention: Elimelech, Coma combo. Although a bit expensive for my taste.

> blackday wrote: > True, but the Tremere should be able to finish them with thefts, and if they reach 2nd round blood to water is real nasty. I have a friend who used it in his anathema deck and makes swiss cheese of my imbued. > Unfortunately, Blood to Water is really hard to use. I keep trying to fit it into Tremere/!Tremere decks, but always end up discarding it (and then later replacing it in the deck). Even something like Telepathic Tracking + Blood to Water, gets pretty hideous when it comes to blood cost. pckvtes.wordpress.com @pckvtes

And the temporis combo Domain of Evernight + Outside the hourglass put the whole Dawn + whether control combo to shame.

Fatima al-Faqadi + garrote + baals bloody talons

Reson I asked is that we had a Fight Club tournament today. Her is my deck: Deck Name: Club of Goratrix (Fight Club) Created by: Baaliprimogen Description: Crypt [12 vampires, average capacity: 6] 3x Goratrix ANI AUS DOM THA vic 10 Tremere antitribu:2 1x Goratrix (Adv) ANI AUS DOM THA vic 10 Tremere:2 1x Ian Forestal AUS DOM THA 8 Tremere antitribu:2 3x Alejandro Aguirre ani aus dom tha 5 Tremere antitribu:3 1x Brooke dom tha 3 Tremere antitribu:2 1x Saiz aus dom 3 Tremere antitribu:3 1x Heinrick Schlempt tha 2 Tremere antitribu:2 1x Tupdog POT VIS 1 Gargoyle:3 Library [60 cards] Master [8] 3x Blood Doll 1x Fame 1x Giant's Blood 1x Infernal Pact 1x Metro Underground 1x University Hunting Ground Action [7] 2x Army of Rats 4x Recure of the Homeland 1x Trainer Combat [45] 9x Apportation 4x Aura Reading 4x Blood to Water 3x Botched Move 1x Canine Horde 5x Carrion Crows 3x Drain Essence 5x Rego Motus 5x Terror Frenzy 6x Weather Control We played 2 rounds + semi + final I made it to the semi. But had to withdraw since I did not have time to play the final.

Best warzone combo I know: Flesh of Marble, Weather Control, Drawing out the Beast, Trap, Shape Mastery (to cancel opponents Flesh of Marble), Skin of Night or Adaptability. Maybe I miss something because we desinged this with adv. Beckett for the 7 card combat tournament. But honestly: most epic and by far the best combat combo ever is: Charismatic Aura + Majesty. Just pwns badly. NC for Hungary hunfragment.blogspot.com

Twisting the Knife. I get so horribly owned by this combo all the time. Makes me angry. "Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!" -Nalia De-Arnise garourimgazette.wordpress.com/ www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines

Catatonic Fear + TV

> KoKo wrote: > Catatonic Fear + TV > I thought it was great, but the more I played it, the more it appeared weak: - it's ineffective against a long-range deck: gun, animalism - it's ineffective against a grapple-potence deck - it's ineffective against any deck that can dodge Basically, it's effective against another S:CE deck or a fortitude deck. Otherwise, plainly playing TV is just as good. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

For the "advanced tech" department I have two favorites: Goratrix + Infernal Pact + Pocket out of time and Qadir + Dog Pack + Shadow Feint + Selective Silence + Blood Sweat + Target Vitals + additional strikes For the slightly less advanced department I go for: Cock Robin + Deep Song + Carrion Crows + Slam + Grapple + Taste "My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."

Well, if we really want gigantic card combos, how about Immortal Grapple + Death of my COnscience + Burning Wrath ? For when you absolutely need something deader than dead.

IMHO the most effective combat combo is: Thoughts Betrayed + Shadow Step + Arms of the abyss + Entombment (+ Amaranth or Decapitate to finish the job) Add a Disengage in case of IG Obviously, it has weak points, but works based on Entombment + "burn card", the rest are just to improve its effectiveness

I'm a big fan of two cards combo (the more simple the better). - Lapse + Conflagration - Evil Eye + Conflagration - Outside the Hourglass + Domain of Evernight - WWS + Psyche! Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > > > KoKo wrote: > > Catatonic Fear + TV > > > I thought it was great, but the more I played it, the more it appeared weak: > - it's ineffective against a long-range deck: gun, animalism > Well, it doesn't "kill" those decks, but the S:CE still actually prevents you from being killed by them. I'd rather lose 1 blood from Catatonic Fear than the 2+ from a gun deck or the 3 per round from animalism. At least against Animalism, you get a slight card advantage (letting them waste their Crows + Bats, while you lose Catatonic Fear and 1 blood). > - it's ineffective against any deck that can dodge > Hopefully in this case, you end up blocking them so you only use the cards if they dodge. Most likely, dodgy decks are more defensive and are going to just be hitting for hands for 1 anyway, so you don't really need the Catatonic Fears, and can probably just hands + Target Vitals most of the time anyway. You lose a Target Vitals, they lose a dodge, you are even on blood. The key is the Target Vitals gives you very efficient (if limited) offense. Catatonic Fear gives you strong defense as S:CE. But the two have surprising synergy in hosing S:CE and prevention. Even if you aren't facing S:CE and prevention, you still have the inherent offense of Target Vitals and defense of Catatonic Fear to fall back on, giving you more flexibility than a lot of the other combat combos. pckvtes.wordpress.com @pckvtes

> echiang wrote: > > > Ankha wrote: > > > > > KoKo wrote: > > > Catatonic Fear + TV > > > > > I thought it was great, but the more I played it, the more it appeared weak: > > - it's ineffective against a long-range deck: gun, animalism > > > Well, it doesn't "kill" those decks, but the S:CE still actually prevents you from being killed by them. > > I'd rather lose 1 blood from Catatonic Fear than the 2+ from a gun deck or the 3 per round from animalism. At least against Animalism, you get a slight card advantage (letting them waste their Crows + Bats, while you lose Catatonic Fear and 1 blood). > > > - it's ineffective against any deck that can dodge > > > Hopefully in this case, you end up blocking them so you only use the cards if they dodge. Most likely, dodgy decks are more defensive and are going to just be hitting for hands for 1 anyway, so you don't really need the Catatonic Fears, and can probably just hands + Target Vitals most of the time anyway. You lose a Target Vitals, they lose a dodge, you are even on blood. > > The key is the Target Vitals gives you very efficient (if limited) offense. Catatonic Fear gives you strong defense as S:CE. But the two have surprising synergy in hosing S:CE and prevention. Even if you aren't facing S:CE and prevention, you still have the inherent offense of Target Vitals and defense of Catatonic Fear to fall back on, giving you more flexibility than a lot of the other combat combos. > This. Many of the combos here revolve around several moving parts, many of which are ineffective on their own. This is not the case with Catatonic Fear + TV. Echiang pretty much summed it up, but the argument that it isn't effective against animalism/guns is moot. It's still a S:CE and last time I checked, that trumps everything except for IG. While not as powerful as say aids/crows in terms of stripping blood off opposing vampires, it can and DOES send folks to torpor mid-to-late game while keeping your vampires nice and safe. Immortal Grapple does prove to be a problem though but at least you're at least hitting them back for 3. Otherwise, add a couple of maneuvers and/or prevent, and suddenly you become surprisingly resilient to most opposing combat strategies. The Toreador and Ishtarri say hello.

Ardan Lane + Theft of Vitae + Rego Motus steal 3 blood (not preventable, also effective against allies like Ren Garou, War Ghoul, Ponticulus, Tye Cooper etc, plus a possible prevent of 4 dam. only weakness: Immo. Grapple and Cel Combat)

> This is not the case with Catatonic Fear + TV. Echiang pretty much summed it up, > No, he did not. What he did was give examples about decision making in an actual game. These examples are all fine, except that they assume you have TV:CF in your deck. Those decisions being sound has nothing to do with the actual strength of the combo in itself. > but the argument that it isn't effective against animalism/guns is moot. It's still a S:CE and last time I checked, that trumps everything except for IG. While not as powerful as say aids/crows in terms of stripping blood off opposing vampires, it can and DOES send folks to torpor mid-to-late game while keeping your vampires nice and safe. > This is besides the point, really. Ankha's point is that if you use Catatonic Fear + T:V as a combat strategy, it's hardly more effective than *just* Target Vitals with the added bonus that the latter is not a two-card combo, can be used under grapple and doesn't require superior presence. If your want to use S:CE, there are superior choices to Catatonic Fear in Majesty which has an untap, Staredown which is free and Unholy Penance that provides a conditional +1 bleed. If your deck is designed to be some sort of bruise-but-sometimes-not kind of deck then, sure, it's pretty decent combination of cards, but why are you using presence to do it? I guess it can be decent in a Free States Rant deck or a deck running a lot of Temptations or even Shattering Crescendo's.

> Isanwayen wrote: > only weakness: Immo. Grapple and Cel Combat > And all S:CE, Outside the Hourglass + Domain of Evernight, Coma, Entombment, and cards like Acrobatics or Stutter step. The main advantage being that ani / cel is scarcely played (both uncommon and not too attractive), and S:CE / send to torpor strike are not common offensive strategy.

> Ohlmann wrote: > > > Isanwayen wrote: > > only weakness: Immo. Grapple and Cel Combat > > > And all S:CE, Outside the Hourglass + Domain of Evernight, Coma, Entombment, and cards like Acrobatics or Stutter step. The main advantage being that ani / cel is scarcely played (both uncommon and not too attractive), and S:CE / send to torpor strike are not common offensive strategy. > Point is, catatonic fear with target vitals deal damage to the opposing minion even if it combat end as a strike. Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

> Izaak wrote: > Ankha's point is that if you use Catatonic Fear + T:V as a combat strategy, it's hardly more effective than *just* Target Vitals with the added bonus that the latter is not a two-card combo, can be used under grapple and doesn't require superior presence. > "Hardly more effective"? Maybe if your meta doesn't feature much prevent or S:CE but is mainly all about dodging, going to long without doing damage or immortal grappling. CT+T:V is better than T:V against almost all combos in this thread. The defensive aspect is a big deal and doing three damage is also big. I have played the combo (as well as Loving Agony + T:V) a lot and it has performed consistently well. Sure, Majesty is better in many decks but having a credible combat threat with a solid defense is very good - especially when blocking to make your predator think twice about going after you willy-nilly.

> Lech wrote: > Point is, catatonic fear with target vitals deal damage to the opposing minion even if it combat end as a strike. > I believe it's a mix up. I was talking about the combat combo done by Ardan Lane + Theft of Vitae + Rego Motus, saying it was not all that resilient.

@ Ohlmann well, S:CE I don't count as weakness, cuz you only need 1 card that costs no blood against a card that usually costs blood. Since this proposed combat module is not a very offensive one, I think thats a good trade. In the end i think it's quite more effective than Catatonic Fear and T:V, because you need (without prevent) one less card, the cost is 1 less and you gain blood. I just think it's one of the most card-effective combos, especially in the mid-to late game, when vampires are running low on blood and against allies. 3 blood loss plus a gain of 3 blood with one Vampire and just one (!) card is awesome imho. Surely, you should not run an offensive combat deck with it.

Fatima + Ak-47 + 18 Psyche! Immortal Grapple + TV + Disarm. As less cards in the combo as possible. My favorite combat combo is Mind Rape + Abactor. I have a multi rush deck that involves, Mind Rape, Banishment and Mind Numb. Sorry, I'm just kidding guys.

> Isanwayen wrote: > well, S:CE I don't count as weakness, cuz you only need 1 card that costs no blood against a card that usually costs blood. Since this proposed combat module is not a very offensive one, I think thats a good trade. > Ardan does not have sup' celerity, and Telepathic tracking cost one blood. Plus the fact you may waste one card against a S:CE, which is not alway ideal. You're less hit than ranged potence combat (and some other) by S:CE, I give you that. But more than say, celegun. > > Isanwayen wrote: > I just think it's one of the most card-effective combos, especially in the mid-to late game, when vampires are running low on blood and against allies. 3 blood loss plus a gain of 3 blood with one Vampire and just one (!) card is awesome imho. Surely, you should not run an offensive combat deck with it. > I would like it way better if Ardan had animalism or something. You can't send people to torpor via blood theft, so it has less impact. Also, disarm hit you hard if you have no maneuver. It's a shame because you need another card than Rego Motus. In my opinion, it's situationnal. Against ranged or it's pretty perfect. Against S:CE, close , or some sort of celegun it's not that hot. And sadly, I believe that solution against work well against this combo, with the exception of ranged aggrav.

> Ohlmann wrote: > > > Isanwayen wrote: > > well, S:CE I don't count as weakness, cuz you only need 1 card that costs no blood against a card that usually costs blood. Since this proposed combat module is not a very offensive one, I think thats a good trade. > > > Ardan does not have sup' celerity, and Telepathic tracking cost one blood. Plus the fact you may waste one card against a S:CE, which is not alway ideal. > think you got me wrong here... didnt mean Psyche! or Tracking... meant the Theft... a card you spend for no effect, in case the opponent plays a S:ce... there are worse things that could happen, as if you play ani combat. There you usually spend two cards (Crows and Bats) to no effect against S:CE. But in general, I think were at the same POV, this "combo" is not a power combo, but to me its a very card effective and solid combat module.

In the card efficiency department, Rabbat the Sewer Goddess + Hidden lurker can also be pretty good. It does not need a lot of card, and it ignore prevention and S:CE. THe main problem being that Hidden Lurker is pretty bad outside of Rabbat, and Rabbat is not too sexy for a 7-cap. Not dreadful, but the combo of a very specialized vampire and a very narrow card make the whole harder to use efficiently.