1) Can I use Abomination on a just recruited Cry Wolf?
2) Can I use Set's Curse on a just recruited Vagabond Mystic?
3) Does Abomination and/or Set's Curse actions qualify for Taking the Skin: Minion?
4) Can Seterpenre receive Abombwe skill cards from his special?
Thanks in advance.
EDIT: I should include card texts.
Name: Abomination
Cardtype: Action
Cost: 1 pool
Capacity: 4
+1 stealth action. Requires a ready non-sterile vampire.
Burn a ready untapped werewolf ally you control to put this card in play. It becomes a unique Independent Abomination with 4 capacity, superior Protean [PRO] and +1 strength. Move up to 4 blood from the acting vampire to this vampire. This vampire gets an additional strike each round and an optional maneuver each combat. He may enter combat with a ready minion as a action.
Name: Set's Curse
Cardtype: Action
Cost: 2 blood
Discipline: Serpentis
+1 stealth action.
[ser] Burn any ally or retainer to put this card into play. This card becomes an animal ally with 3 life, 2 strength and 0 bleed. This ally cannot have or use equipment or retainers and cannot play action cards.
[SER] As above, but burn a vampire with capacity less than 3 to put this card in play.
Name: Taking the Skin: Minion
Cardtype: Action Modifier/Combat
Discipline: Abombwe
[abo] [REFLEX] Cancel a frenzy card played on this vampire as it is played.
[abo] Skin. Play when this vampire burns a minion. Put this card on this vampire and untap him or her. This vampire may bleed an additional time this turn and gets +1 bleed and +1 stealth when bleeding. Burn this card during your discard phase. A minion can have only one skin.
Name: Seterpenre
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Follower of Set
Group: 5
Capacity: 10
Discipline: AUS NEC OBF PRE SER
Independent: When Seterpenre enters play, put up to four master: Discipline cards on him from your hand, ash heap and/or library (shuffle afterward). Discipline cards do not affect his capacity.
Name: Abombwe [abo]
Cardtype: Master
Capacity: +1
Master: Discipline. Trifle.
Put this card on a Laibon or on a vampire with Protean [pro]. This vampire gains one level of Abombwe [abo]. Capacity increases by 1: the vampire is one generation older. Cannot be placed on a vampire with superior Abombwe.
Adam Esbjörnsson,
Prince of Örebro
> Xaddam wrote:
> 1) Can I use Abomination on a just recruited Cry Wolf?
>
No.
The just recruited ally is not 'ready'.
LSJ Feb 11, 2004
groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/1320fda5f0aad48a
> Xaddam wrote:
> 2) Can I use Set's Curse on a just recruited Vagabond Mystic?
>
Yes.
Set's Curse does not require the ally to be 'ready', the way Abomination does.
> Xaddam wrote:
> 3) Does Abomination and/or Set's Curse actions qualify for Taking the Skin: Minion?
>
Yes.
Both burn allies from play, which satisfies the text of Taking the Skin: Minion.
> Xaddam wrote:
> 4) Can Seterpenre receive Abombwe skill cards from his special?
>
Yes.
The Abombwe text is not checked as it comes into play, only Seterpenre's text matters.
> Xaddam wrote:
> 1) Can I use Abomination on a just recruited Cry Wolf?
>
No - Abomination requires a ready ally.
Cry Wolf is put in the uncontrolled region when recruited ( Rulebook 6.1.5 , [LSJ 20010713]
> Xaddam wrote:
> 2) Can I use Set's Curse on a just recruited Vagabond Mystic?
>
Sure.
> Xaddam wrote:
> 3) Does Abomination and/or Set's Curse actions qualify for Taking the Skin: Minion?
>
Sure.
> Xaddam wrote:
> 4) Can Seterpenre receive Abombwe skill cards from his special?
>
Yes. [LSJ 20051116] (where Seterpenre is "etc") The requirement ("Put this card on a vampire with ...") only applies when the card is played.
Bonus questions, mostly for completion.
5) Does The Becoming (without skill card), Bima (without skill card) or War Ghoul qualify for Taking the skin: Minion?
EDIT: I should include card texts.
Name: Bima
Cardtype: Ally
Clan: Follower of Set
Cost: 1 blood
Ghoul with 2 life. 2 strength, 1 bleed.
When this Bima enters play, move a master: Discipline card to it from your hand or burn this Bima. The Bima may play cards that require the basic level of that Discipline as a vampire.
Name: The Becoming
Cardtype: Action
Cost: 2 blood
Capacity: 0
+1 stealth action. Requires a non-sterile vampire.
Put this card in play. It becomes a 0-capacity {non-unique} vampire of the same clan as the acting vampire. Move up to 1 blood from the acting vampire and up to 3 Discipline cards from your hand to this vampire. This vampire cannot act this turn. If this vampire has no capacity-increasing Discipline cards, burn him or her.
Name: War Ghoul
Cardtype: Ally
Clan: Tzimisce
Cost: 3 pool
Ghoul with 5 life. 4 strength, 0 bleed.
When War Ghoul enters play, burn an ally or retainer you control. She can enter combat with any ready vampire controlled by another Methuselah as a action. She may prevent 1 damage each round. Tap and burn War Ghoul to burn any location; you cannot use this ability during combat.
Adam Esbjörnsson,
Prince of Örebro
> Xaddam wrote:
> Bonus questions, mostly for completion.
>
> 5) Does The Becoming (without skill card), Bima (without skill card) or War Ghoul qualify for Taking the skin: Minion?
>
No. In these cases, the Bima/War Ghoul/Becoming is not burned by the acting vampire (who merely puts them in play). [LSJ 20090921]
>
> LSJ wrote:
> And note that the minion recruiting a War Ghoul doesn't burn anything; xe merely
> puts the War Ghoul in play.
>
Why do allies go to the uncontrolled region when recruited? Since they are controlled but not ready, wouldn't the torpor/incapacitate region be more accurate?
> Non-existant user wrote:
> Why do allies go to the uncontrolled region when recruited? Since they are controlled but not ready, wouldn't the torpor/incapacitate region be more accurate?
>
It's just the way the rules were written back in 1994. They were put there to indicate they couldn't act. The distinction that they were there but not ready didn't seem to rear its head until I asked a question several years later.
[LSJ 19980717]
>
> LSJ wrote:
> [...]
> > what would happen if I brought out an ally
> > and then my prey tried to rush it using an out of turn madness network
> > action at the end of my minion phase? Since the ally doesn't go into my
> > active region until the end of my turn (rules outline), can it be
> > targetted on that turn by a action? I suspect not although the
> > reason it goes into the inactive region is to mark it as unable to
> > act... but by being there, does it become an illegal target?
>
> Good questions.
>
> The short answer (ruling/correction): The Ally is controlled (and thus a
> legal target for most effects), but is not ready while it is in the inactive
> region. This could be better shown if the Ally were placed in the Torpor
> region, but doing so would lead to its own set of questions and confusion.
>
> The Ally is placed face-up in the inactive region when it is recruited,
> which can serve as a helpful reminder that the Ally is controlled.
> (Face-up cards in play are controlled, as a general rule. Face-down cards
> in play are not.)
>
The incapacitated region didn't exist in 1994, and currently only functions for Imbued.
Torpor wouldn't be a good thing, since the rules have been changed in the intervening years so that an ally who would go into the torpor region (from an effect played as a vampire) burns instead.
You could change the rules to handle this, but there's really no need to because it's not causing any actual problems.
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
> You could change the rules to handle this, but there's really no need to because it's not causing any actual problems.
>
If it didn't cause any actual problems, the original first 2 questions would not have been posted The whole "he goes to the uncontrolled region but he is controlled" is a mess. The game mechanics are already complex enough without the addition of poorly written rules.
> Non-existant user wrote:
> If it didn't cause any actual problems, the original first 2 questions would not have been posted The whole "he goes to the uncontrolled region but he is controlled" is a mess.
>
People post questions about pretty much everything all the time. The entire game is, therefore, a problem.
> Non-existant user wrote:
> Why do allies go to the uncontrolled region when recruited?
>
Accumulated baggage from MtG as far as I understand.
Doesn't it have "summoning sickness" for creatures?
(am not familiar at all with MtG though...)
Finnish Politics!
> Lönkka wrote:
>
> > Non-existant user wrote:
> > Why do allies go to the uncontrolled region when recruited?
> >
> Accumulated baggage from MtG as far as I understand.
> Doesn't it have "summoning sickness" for creatures?
> (am not familiar at all with MtG though...)
>
It certainly did at the time.
However, there's no particular reason you couldn't have just recruited them but said "By the way, they can't act." Third Tradition: Progeny does that, for example.