Name: Curst greed
Cardtype: Master Out-of-turn
When a Methuselah would gain more than two pool from one single source (edit:other than having ousted his prey,) he burns that much pool instead.
(edit: Not usable during an oust or unique political action.)
After reading a lot of posts about what cards are overpowered I see a tendency towards cards that generates a lot of pool at once. Without having read all card ideas posted in this thread in full detail, I have not found any card with a similar simple mechanic. It doesnt render Villein or Parity Shift completely useless, but you would have to bloat more careful. It is alike to what Archon Investigation does for bleeds. Posing a risk if you want too much at once.
Just a quick idea in the midst of the night, but i would like to throw it in for discussion.
> cmdrKEEN wrote:
> Name: Curst greed
> Cardtype: Master Out-of-turn
> When a Methuselah would gain more than two pool from one single source other than having ousted his prey, he burns that much pool instead.
>
> After reading a lot of posts about what cards are overpowered I see a tendency towards cards that generates a lot of pool at once. Without having read all card ideas posted in this thread in full detail, I have not found any card with a similar simple mechanic. It doesnt render Villein or Parity Shift completely useless, but you would have to bloat more careful. It is alike to what Archon Investigation does for bleeds. Posing a risk if you want too much at once.
>
Abusive in Madness Network and Enkil Cog decks that can do ridiculous amounts of pool "damage" with Ancient Influence, Reins of Power, and Political Stranglehold.
pckvtes.wordpress.com
@pckvtes
> cmdrKEEN wrote:
> Name: Curst greed
> Cardtype: Master Out-of-turn
> When a Methuselah would gain more than two pool from one single source other than having ousted his prey, he burns that much pool instead.
>
> After reading a lot of posts about what cards are overpowered I see a tendency towards cards that generates a lot of pool at once. Without having read all card ideas posted in this thread in full detail, I have not found any card with a similar simple mechanic. It doesnt render Villein or Parity Shift completely useless, but you would have to bloat more careful. It is alike to what Archon Investigation does for bleeds. Posing a risk if you want too much at once.
>
> Just a quick idea in the midst of the night, but i would like to throw it in for discussion.
>
What about not dealing damage, but delaying the gain?
Put this card into play.
When a Methuselah would gain more than two pool from one single source other than having ousted his prey, he or she gains 2 pool and put the rest of this card instead. During each Methuselah's untap phase, he or she may move 1 counter from this card to his or her pool. (+text to avoid contest/multiple copies in play)
So you don't get killed by gaining pool, and the pool you would gain will benefit the whole table in fact (even if you get 2 pool first).
I don't say it's a good card, but it seems less prone to combo than your suggestion.
I wish The Rising were more playable.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
I like a lot better the Ankha wording. I would change twothings :
* 2 counter per turn, not 1. It would be already plenty harsh for deck that bloat as a defense.
* work on only one methuselah, because separating the blood for every methuselah on only one card seem problematic.
In addition, since this card seem to help mainly stealth bleed and power bleed, maybe make it burn if you bleed too much or something ?
> Ohlmann wrote:
> I like a lot better the Ankha wording. I would change twothings :
>
> * 2 counter per turn, not 1. It would be already plenty harsh for deck that bloat as a defense.
> * work on only one methuselah, because separating the blood for every methuselah on only one card seem problematic.
>
> In addition, since this card seem to help mainly stealth bleed and power bleed, maybe make it burn if you bleed too much or something ?
>
In my version, ALL methuselahs benefit from the pool (the pool that is collected is not distinct for each methuselah).
That means that if you shift your prey, you gain 2, put 3 on the card, and your prey will regain 1 during his or her turn (and your little prey and grand predator too).
But it doesn't mean that your version ("choose one methuselah..." i suppose it will require some burn possibility too) isn't better.
Something like:
Unique. Choose a Methuselah and put this card into play.
When that Methuselah would gain more than two pool from one single source other than having ousted his or her prey, he or she gains 2 pool and put the rest on this card instead. During that Methuselah's untap phase, he or she may move 2 counters from this card to his or her pool. Any vampire may burn this card as a action (the pool left is lost).
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
>
> What about not dealing damage, but delaying the gain?
>
> Put this card into play.
> When a Methuselah would gain more than two pool from one single source other than having ousted his prey, he or she gains 2 pool and put the rest of this card instead. During each Methuselah's untap phase, he or she may move 1 counter from this card to his or her pool. (+text to avoid contest/multiple copies in play)
>
> So you don't get killed by gaining pool, and the pool you would gain will benefit the whole table in fact (even if you get 2 pool first).
>
> I don't say it's a good card, but it seems less prone to combo than your suggestion.
>
> I wish The Rising were more playable.
>
I like the mechanic, but that would very much take away the simplicity of this card. And would be a different card altogether.
Maybe just denying the poolgain instead of turning it into pooldamage would be enough, but it would not be as much of a thread for someone who already has a lot of pool and just wants to gain (a lot) more at once.
What about adding a "not usable during actions that may only be played once a game". Makes the text longer and less intuitive that I would like, but would eleminate the abuses echiang pointed out.
Are there more cases this card could be abused? Are there possibilities to give another methuselah large amounts of pool when not your turn besides other Out-of-turn Masters?
What about if cards like golconda are played?
first post updated:
Name: Curst greed
Cardtype: Master Out-of-turn
When a Methuselah would gain more than two pool from one single source he burns that much pool instead.
Not usable during an oust or unique political action.
> cmdrKEEN wrote:
> Name: Curst greed
> Cardtype: Master Out-of-turn
> When a Methuselah would gain more than two pool from one single source other than having ousted his prey, he burns that much pool instead.
>
Just picking this one, although it could equally apply to any of the follow-ups that use the same "two pool/single source" mechanic.
What's the Designer Intent for transferring pool back from an uncontrolled vampire? I would guess that players might argue that:
each use of 2 transfers is a separate source the vampire in your influence phase is a 'single source'
I'm not so interested in which of these would be the official answer if this was real card text and floppy had to rule on it, so much as what people think should happen. Card text can be changed (or not changed) either way.
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
> What's the Designer Intent for transferring pool back from an uncontrolled vampire?
>
I can't argue for the card creator, but in my opinion, each use would be a separate source. This is because gaining pool from your uncontrolled vampire is not exactly too much of a problem, usually limited to 2 or 3 pools per turn, so no use nerfing it again. And if somehow a deck get 10+ transfert per turn, I believe the problem would still not be the pool gain from thoses transfert but the fact that it can each turn put an inner circle into play, villein it, then golconda it.
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
> Just picking this one, although it could equally apply to any of the follow-ups that use the same "two pool/single source" mechanic.
>
> What's the Designer Intent for transferring pool back from an uncontrolled vampire? I would guess that players might argue that:
> each use of 2 transfers is a separate source the vampire in your influence phase is a 'single source'
>
> I'm not so interested in which of these would be the official answer if this was real card text and floppy had to rule on it, so much as what people think should happen. Card text can be changed (or not changed) either way.
>
I'd find it very weird if it wasn't considered to be two separate actions (there might be a better word than "actions", but I'm sure my point gets through).
This is from a rulebook point of view though, since the things you can to in the influence phase are:
Spend one transfer to move 1 blood counter from your pool to a minion in your uncontrolled region. Spend two transfers to move 1 blood counter from a minion in your uncontrolled region to your pool. Spend four transfers and burn a pool to move a vampire from your crypt to your uncontrolled region (drawing from the top, as always).
Since there's no "Spend three transfers to move 3 blood counters from your pool to a minion in your uncontrolled region" I think the intent is rather clear. You perform one of those three "actions" a number of times.
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
> What's the Designer Intent for transferring pool back from an uncontrolled vampire?
>
The single source was entered to avoid "Tribute to the Master" or several "Blood Dolls" to be affected. I thought about transfering too, but to be honest either way would be fine with me. Even if transferring three blood from one minion to the pool would qualify to play this card, then you could still transfer up from two different minions. I would go for whatever keeps the card as plain and simple as possible.
Is this card intended to hose The Eternals of Sirius? 9 pool damage is quite a lot. Also, why is Tribute to the Master more "ok" than minion tap? The entire concept seems like a really dangerous mechanic.
I would suggest maybe something like "Play whenever any Methuselah gains 2 or more pool. That Methuselah burns 2 pool.". Two pool damage for a master card is really good, and you won't actually kill anyone with this card. If you feel like 2 damage would be too little, then increasing it to 3 and only usable when that Methuselah gains 3 or more.
Adam Esbjörnsson,
Prince of Örebro
The original intention was to create a real treat to gaining too much pool at once in the same way as archon investigation does to high bleeds.
Something that is a simple mechanic and make people want to only take a fair amount or pool to be safe.
"if you would get 3 or more pool gain 2 pool damage instead." would probably do that but I see there are many ways to abuse any kind of this mechanic.