Top 5 wallpaper

I'm redoing the walls in my kitchen and need some wallpaper After seeing some posts in another thread, it seems some players have different ideas about what makes a card wallpaper. I've always thought the term meant cards that were so bad they were a detriment to even have in a deck. What are your top 5 wallpaper cards and why? Also, have you ever made a deck with a card to prove it was not wallpaper? What were the results? Someone wrote that Wake with Evening's Freshness is wallpaper. I don't think that's completely the case. Perhaps this discussion will help others see ways to possibly use some cards they never would have before.

> TorranceCircle wrote: > After seeing some posts in another thread, it seems some players have different ideas about what makes a card wallpaper. I've always thought the term meant cards that were so bad they were a detriment to even have in a deck. > I've always thought that "wallpaper" meant that the card has been rendered "obsolete" because of a new card does the same thing but more efficiently, or with better side effects, etc. A "wallpapered" card may have been useful before, but with the introduction of the better card(s), has been rendered useless/sub-optimal. > What are your top 5 wallpaper cards and why? Also, have you ever made a deck with a card to prove it was not wallpaper? What were the results? Someone wrote that Wake with Evening's Freshness is wallpaper. I don't think that's completely the case. Perhaps this discussion will help others see ways to possibly use some cards they never would have before. > I must say Twisting the Knife takes the cake. Pulled Fangs does the same thing (inflict 1 more damage) but it can trigger more easily, is free, is more common, has been around longer, etc. etc. I never bothered to make a deck with it. I disagree that WWEF is wallpaper. It has its own uses, even if the draw back can be steep. I use WWEF if I expect to react with the same minion more than once between turns, but do not intend to block. I find that a mix of WWEF and OtQV works well for non-dedicated block decks. But of course, YMMV. Advocate of Good-looking Deck Posts pulledfangs.blogspot.com :vtes: Manila V:tES

Cards I would consider wallpaper Betrayer: It may have been usable once, but completely useless with the grouping rule. Auto-da-fe: Stiff requirements for use, and normally doesn't do more damage than a KRC would do. Warning Sirens: Not worth a master phase. Most of the clan hosers: Because while they will sometimes be useful, it's not something that you can control. (Possible exceptions are the one's effecting Malkavian or Malkavian antitribu, as you can control your prey having them)

If you were meaning my comments... It's not that WWEF isn't useful, I just have about 80 copies of the card which is enough for 8+ decks... I can spare a few to go into the back of sleeves for other cards. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

@Juggernaut1981 I know what you mean about having a whole pile of a card that doesn't even see use. I didn't mean to disagree with you, just with the "Someone" you mentioned, whoever xe is. Heh, I guess WWEF will be your cardback of choice for the upcoming VEKN expansion. Advocate of Good-looking Deck Posts pulledfangs.blogspot.com :vtes: Manila V:tES

Okay top 5 wallpaper 1. Esteem (crap and useless) 2. Mummify (crap) 3. Expidate (impossible to pull of...) 4. Jua Vema (simillar to Skin of Night, only requiers more and does less) 5. Art of Love, The (Entrancement anyone?) Close: Jackal But the real wallpapers (read. shitloads) must be WWEF, Forced Awakening, Blood Doll, Minion Tap, Undead Strength, Enhanced Senses, Govern, and every other Common card that has been printed in 3+ sets and starters...

> Baaliprimogen wrote: > 5. Art of Love, The (Entrancement anyone?) > It is played, because it's a useful master to steal Carlton or a War Ghoul without getting blocked. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

1.Blood of the Cobra 2.Immaculate Vitae 3.Purification 4.Vascular Explosion 5.Veil of Silence 5. Weakness Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

> Ankha wrote: > > > Baaliprimogen wrote: > > 5. Art of Love, The (Entrancement anyone?) > > > It is played, because it's a useful master to steal Carlton or a War Ghoul without getting blocked. > Yeah... that is true. But still, it's just one turn. Lech: So, your not happy with the old cards. I kind of like them. Everyone of them has it's uses. 'cept, maybe, Weakness. But with a lot of Lillith's Blessings in play, it's not that bad to include one or two... (maybe not two)

> Baaliprimogen wrote: > > > Ankha wrote: > > > > > Baaliprimogen wrote: > > > 5. Art of Love, The (Entrancement anyone?) > > > > > It is played, because it's a useful master to steal Carlton or a War Ghoul without getting blocked. > > > Yeah... that is true. But still, it's just one turn. > > Lech: So, your not happy with the old cards. I kind of like them. Everyone of them has it's uses. 'cept, maybe, Weakness. But with a lot of Lillith's Blessings in play, it's not that bad to include one or two... (maybe not two) > Which ones have it's uses ? Blood of the Cobra Strike: 1R damage. Strike: ranged. Play a non-ranged strike that requires Quietus from your hand and use that strike as if it were ranged (if the chosen strike is a hand strike, the hand strike's damage is not ranged and this strike is not a hand strike). How it's playable ? Immaculate Vitae Only usable when a vampire controlled by another Methuselah successfully hunts. Put this card on that vampire; that vampire cannot block this reacting vampire. Burn this card if that vampire goes into torpor. As above, but the acting vampire does not gain blood from the current hunting action. You are not even able to play it most of the times. Ditto with other mentioned cards. Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

> Baaliprimogen wrote: > 5. Art of Love, The (Entrancement anyone?) > I play 1 Nicholas Chang in my Tzimisce Piper War ghoul deck, it is very funny steal Carlton and use it for food for the new War Ghoul I'm recruiting the same turn

I would go for the old "clan weakness" card. They are fun to read, often don't exactly do much, are non-trifle master, and aren't too useful even if they are vampires of this clan. But apart from thoses "historical" cards 1 - Combat shotgun : .44 magnum really put this card to shame I believe. The sawed-off seem pretty bad too, but at least it's cheaper for more or less the same effect. 2 - Bonecraft. Weak effect while being costly in opportunity cost - if you can do a close range strike, maybe you should do aggravated damage instead ? 3 - Immense Size. Press or immortal grapple aren't too much of a problem for vis combat. You may use it to support the vis combat end, but chiroptean marauder will usually work way better. 4 - Excommunication. Very situationnal and not exactly game-changing when it does have a target 5 - Kuta. Banishment has less restriction and will have much more of an effect. Note that I don't believe that Vissicitude is weak. It's just one of my favorite discipline, and it have along powerfuls and versatils card like Chiroptean marauder some ... dubious card

> Lech wrote: > Blood of the Cobra > > Strike: 1R damage. > Strike: ranged. Play a non-ranged strike that requires Quietus from your hand and use that strike as if it were ranged (if the chosen strike is a hand strike, the hand strike's damage is not ranged and this strike is not a hand strike). > > How it's playable ? > It allows you to play Dagon's Call, Scorpion's Touch, Vascular Explosion, and Weakness at range. I'm not sure that actually answers "how it's playable?", but there you have it.

From the top of my head: Library: Crimson Fury -- way too conditional Eyes of the Dead -- way too conditional Phobia -- five counters, really? Tortured Confession -- paying when blood to look at the other players hand, when my vampire goes to torpor (i.e. after combat)? Crypt: Sonja Blue -- building on deck on vampire that is constantly under threat of being hijacked? Jacob, The Glitch -- losing your hand over and over again? Miguel Cordovera -- paying 6 pool to give my predator a vampire to bleed me? Hector Trelane -- giving someone pool when my vampire goes to torpor (or is burned)? And WWeF is far from being wallpaper. Still a valid card to use if you want to avoid the disadvantages of On the Qui Vive or Forced Awakening.

1) Bang Nakh. Maybe not the worst card, but probably the most printed bad card, which makes it the best wallpaper 2) Minion Tap 3) Day Operation. Daring is plain better. 4) Eyes of the Dead. 5) Can we nominate THN combat as a whole?

> Non-existant user wrote: > 3) Day Operation. Daring is plain better. > When you got your Daring DI'd you're happy having a DAy Operation in hand to kill the wennie AUS, I always play 2 Daring + 1 DAy in every Ventrue Lawfirm I've played, and it's very good against wall decks with Direct Intervention.

> Lech wrote: > Blood of the Cobra > > Strike: 1R damage. > Strike: ranged. Play a non-ranged strike that requires Quietus from your hand and use that strike as if it were ranged (if the chosen strike is a hand strike, the hand strike's damage is not ranged and this strike is not a hand strike). > > How it's playable ? > > Immaculate Vitae > > Only usable when a vampire controlled by another Methuselah successfully hunts. > Put this card on that vampire; that vampire cannot block this reacting vampire. Burn this card if that vampire goes into torpor. > As above, but the acting vampire does not gain blood from the current hunting action. > > You are not even able to play it most of the times. > > Ditto with other mentioned cards. > Blood of the Cobra. As mention earlier. Plus 1r at 0 cost is not that bad. Has it's uses. Immaculate Vitae. In a blood denial deck this is good. Imagine playing this with Foul Blood. A definitive topor situation. And you remove annoying wall decks. It's a bit prizy, but with the path in play, that's not such a big problem. It's not a good card. But it have it's uses.

Library wall paper: 1. Mummify. coz it just plain sucks 2. Pere Lachaise, France 3. Eyes of the Dead 4. Betrayer 5. Weakness (Quietus) All banned cards of course can be considered as wallpaper.

ooooops....double post

I have 35 decks at the last count and still over a 100 unused Bums Rush. An excess amount of common cards is IMHO more of a wallpaper than a few rare unused cards. One Sword of Caine box gave 17 Eccentric Billionaire. That's 3 Eccentric Billionaire and 14 wallpapers.

> Baaliprimogen wrote: > > > Lech wrote: > > Blood of the Cobra > > > > Strike: 1R damage. > > Strike: ranged. Play a non-ranged strike that requires Quietus from your hand and use that strike as if it were ranged (if the chosen strike is a hand strike, the hand strike's damage is not ranged and this strike is not a hand strike). > > > > How it's playable ? > > > > Immaculate Vitae > > > > Only usable when a vampire controlled by another Methuselah successfully hunts. > > Put this card on that vampire; that vampire cannot block this reacting vampire. Burn this card if that vampire goes into torpor. > > As above, but the acting vampire does not gain blood from the current hunting action. > > > > You are not even able to play it most of the times. > > > > Ditto with other mentioned cards. > > > Blood of the Cobra. As mention earlier. Plus 1r at 0 cost is not that bad. Has it's uses. > > Immaculate Vitae. In a blood denial deck this is good. Imagine playing this with Foul Blood. A definitive topor situation. And you remove annoying wall decks. It's a bit prizy, but with the path in play, that's not such a big problem. It's not a good card. But it have it's uses. > Why would you play immaculate vitae in addition to foul blood ? Playing just foul blood is better. Using both you lost half of foul blood utility and you just inflict 1 damage for 3 blood under hard to get condition (vampires don't hunt often). 1r is not good, and have 1r that have maneuver, have 1R that inflict additional damage to allies AND do something at unlike this wallpaper. Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

Tortured Confession Twisting the knife Death Pact Consume the Dead Masai blood milk but there are several other that could place on those 5 spots Emiliano vekn.net administrators staff

Up Yours! Awesome name, awful card.

> Baaliprimogen wrote: > 4. Jua Vema (simillar to Skin of Night, only requiers more and does less) > 5. Art of Love, The (Entrancement anyone?) > Jua Vema is hardly wallpaper. In the right deck, you can have rush actions that cannot be blocked by vampires. (Do a rush action, play Daring the Dawn, and during the resulting combat use Jua Vema to convert the Daring the Dawn agg into normal). Art of Love isn't amazing, but it's a solid and usable card. Someone else already mentioned using it with War Ghouls. Alternatively, you can steal someone's Carlton or War Ghoul and immediately burn them with their innate abilities. You can similarly kill Infernal Servitors with it. Against the Imbued, it's useful to "fake out" the Imbued player by tricking him into burning his React with Conviction (and you then follow-up with a *real* Entrancement to keep the ally for good). > extrala wrote: > Crimson Fury -- way too conditional > Can be amusing with Reform Body. "For all your efforts, you burn and I stick around." > Sonja Blue -- building on deck on vampire that is constantly under threat of being hijacked? Jacob, The Glitch -- losing your hand over and over again? Miguel Cordovera -- paying 6 pool to give my predator a vampire to bleed me? Hector Trelane -- giving someone pool when my vampire goes to torpor (or is burned)? > I do agree with this list though. Really debilitating disadvantages (why do they predominantly appear on Tremere and !Tremere though?). If Hector Trelane had been made after KMW, he would simply have had Red List which would have made him a bit more playable. > Non-existant user wrote: > 3) Day Operation. Daring is plain better. > Well, it *used* to be decent in the old days when it prevented *all* block attempts (by vampires *and* allies). Nowadays, it might be *slightly* useful if you have inferior guys who have ways to reduce the cost of cards (like Masochism?). But yeah, generally it is worse than Daring the Dawn. > 5) Can we nominate THN combat as a whole? > Groaning Corpse is good. Compress is expensive but a pretty good way to burn vampires. Creeping Infection is actually good for a bleed deck. Withering can be quite good in the right deck. > blackday wrote: > 4. Betrayer > Betrayer is very weak but it has its uses in Uriah Winter decks. I've also seen Pander decks with the Group 4 Pander try and use it (with varying degrees of success). > nc-italy wrote: > Consume the Dead > Consume the Dead isn't that bad. I've seen Nagaraja put it to good use to recoup the cost of Shambling Hordes or Masquer (Wraith). It's also not that uncommon to see some minion/retainer burned during a typical game. pckvtes.wordpress.com @pckvtes

> Brum wrote: > Up Yours! > > Awesome name, awful card. > But also awesome artwork. Baron of Frankfurt

> extrala wrote: > Jacob, The Glitch -- losing your hand over and over again? > I played him often and got the impression that many players don't spend a master phase action to give you a new hand. I admit that the special sounds horrible. But it's used seldom (in fact I never saw a player doing it to me). Baron of Frankfurt

Hmm, I distinctly remember Lukas play him in a draft game (admittedly not the same sitatuation as a constructed game) in Dreieich (Germany), and he lost a game because of him.

I completely disagree with Sonja Blue being wallpaper. You need setup to use her, true. But after the first or second Diamond Thunderbolt people usually stop. And even if she gets stolen, her text allows for the stolen one to be removed from game and the not the new one (and also gives the player the 4 pool). I like her allot. B) Tiago,

> extrala wrote: > From the top of my head: > > Crypt: Sonja Blue -- building on deck on vampire that is constantly under threat of being hijacked? > Sonja Blue has won a 15-player tournament. Perhaps very narrowly-usable, but hardly wallpaper. Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/ Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017

> Ohlmann wrote: > I would go for the old "clan weakness" card. They are fun to read, often don't exactly do much, are non-trifle master, and aren't too useful even if they are vampires of this clan. > Oh, in the olden days some of them, like Letter from Vienna or Malkavian Dementia, used to be quite good. Still, Otso used a deck featuring Malkavian Dementia when he won Finnish ECQ at 2010 at Ropecon (~85 players) so the card ain't all THAT outdated... www.thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#2010finnishecq Finnish Politics!

> Lönkka wrote: > Still, Otso used a deck featuring Malkavian Dementia when he won Finnish ECQ at 2010 at Ropecon (~85 players) so the card ain't all THAT outdated... > > www.thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#2010finnishecq > You're right, Derange go a long way to make at least the malkavian one useful