Name: Show of Force
Cardtype: Action Modifier / Reaction
Discipline: Potence
Cost: 1 blood
Only usable during a referendum.
This vampire gains 1 vote.
As above, and anytime during this referendum this vampire can burn a blood to gain 2 votes.
Warning: Spoiler!
I think this card is a nice addition (and also a logical one) to give non-presence Potence Clans a nice vote-push/defence.
The card is under-average compared to other vote-pushers as it is expensive. But because it
A: is for a non-vote discipline and
B: is both an Action Modifier and a Reaction card.
This makes it a potentially strong vote defense, because you can play it more than once in the same referendum.
As for blood costs:
On both superior it is equal to an inferior Awe for 2. That itself is not strong, but because you can play it at superior for no cost, till you actually decide you want those extra votes, it makes up for that.
The problem with this card is that Brujah come with presence and thus will never play it. Nosferatu come with both Obfuscate (Old Friends) and Animalism (Animal Magnetism). That leaves us with Giovanni, Lasombra, Osebo, Gargoyles and Blood Brothers.
For two of those, Blood Brothers and Gargoyles this card will do absolutely nothing because trying to vote with those clans is a hilarious proposition to begin with.
For Giovanni this card doesn't solve anything, really, because Giovanni lack any sort of strong voting crypt in the first place. Any vote deck they can build will revolve around either Augustus or Carmine, who both have presence.
For Lasombra, it would never see play either. Aside from the fact that Lasombra don't really need vote push to begin with, they have an excellent presence crypt available. And even if you choose to not play that crypt, they get Private Audience for the 1 blood which will in 99% of the cases outshine 3 votes for 2 blood.
Then finally there is Osebo, who have access to their Kholo, Kduva's Mask, Sense Vibrations and Those who Endure Judge. All of these are strictly more playable than Show of Force.
I'd say wallpaper.
Not to mention Osebo has access to telepathic vote counting to shut down major vote opposition, i think we need to power up this card a bit at its current form as Izaak already mentioned it just doesnt work.
> blackday wrote:
> Not to mention Osebo has access to telepathic vote counting to shut down major vote opposition, i think we need to power up this card a bit at its current form as Izaak already mentioned it just doesnt work.
>
Well I'm thinking, but one thing that both or you are missing is that often you only pay one blood, because the enemy sees you can get more votes even if he adds votes, so that will probably often save you the second blood.
Because I want to keep it as both Action Modifier and Reaction, it can't be too strong.
So I have two ideas:
1. Make the superior version give 3 votes
2. Make this card playable by any untapped ready minion you control.
With 2., the card would be similar to Mob rule, in that all of your vampires can contribute.
Well this gives me the idea for
3. make the superior version: As above, and any minion you control with can burn a blood to gain 1 vote, while a vampire with gains 2 votes.
Don't get me wrong, i like the concept of the card. I like it can used as a reaction and an action modifier. You prob added a cost to it to make it sl. inf to animal magnetism as it can be an action modifier/reaction. But yeah, id go with SUP giving 3 votes. Maybe then i can dump bewitching for this card or alternatively you can let the inf/sup do diff things...like inf reduce a bleed by 1 and sup 2 votes. Just my two cents.
I like it as a variation of Mob Rule.
Show of Force
1
Only usable during a referendum.
Minions with may burn 1 blood to gain 1 additional vote. Minions above 7 capacity with may burn up to 2 blood to gain 2 additional votes.
Vampires you control of capacity 7 or above with may burn 2 blood to force a non-acting vampire to abstain.
Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
> Serazahr wrote:
> I think this card is a nice addition (and also a logical one) to give non-presence Potence Clans a nice vote-push/defence.
>
Is there any particular reason why you think Potence needs this, as opposed to any other non-Presence discipline?
I would be somewhat concerned that an offensive combat discipline with pro-vote starts wandering into potentially nasty territory with Archon and Anathema. For example, the Euro-Brujah - specifically, Donal, Constanza, Volker - could potentially put together quite a mean deck just using Pot/Cel as normal. I'm not 100% sure that I'd want to improve their access to perma-rush, diablerie immunity, and significant pool gain. They already get some of the way there with New Carthage and, possibly, Oxford University. This sort of card - and I'm also thinking of some of the variations people have suggested - would just seem to make it easier.
Certainly, I'm not opposed to more diverse access to vote push, but I do think I'd want to be careful about who gets it.
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
>
> > Serazahr wrote:
> > I think this card is a nice addition (and also a logical one) to give non-presence Potence Clans a nice vote-push/defence.
> >
> Is there any particular reason why you think Potence needs this, as opposed to any other non-Presence discipline?
>
I think the same thing.
What do you want to achieve with this card? Vote defense (because you'd probably choose a voting crypt if you want to pass votes, and then you'd probably don't need that card)?
For which type of crypt?
The card is balanced, but I don't really get its usefulness.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
It will probably help !Nos, Ose, Gio more than it would help Bru, Nos (because they gain enough benefit from Prince titles at least as much).
Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
> Juggernaut1981 wrote:
> It will probably help !Nos, Ose, Gio more than it would help Bru, Nos (because they gain enough benefit from Prince titles at least as much).
>
For the Giovanni, it's not going to help them that much because there isn't much of a reason to use Giovanni for votes rather than anyone else. They don't have an 'exclusive' vote - like Parity Shift, or First Tradition. And they generally lack vote support. The Mausoloeum is okay but not great. Few of their voting vampires are that solid compared to other clans - expensive (especially because their titles don't give you access to better votes), not so much untap available, not so much stealth available. There are few ways of establishing extra votes - no Cardinal Benedictions, Giovanni Justicars, or Praxis Seizures - and the obvious candidate, Rise of the Nephtali, is somewhat hamepered by the fact that other decks on the table can potentially steal or contest the title by taking the cardless go-anarch action first. So really, what you're likely to end up doing is making a Giovanni voting deck (or vote/bleed deck) that is just a noticeably poorer clone of, say, Ventrue Law Firm.
The Osebo case is slightly different, but they do face similar challenges - not least of which is that their two cheapest titles are held by vampires with inferior Potence. (Osebo Kholo does set them somewhat apart from the Giovanni, of course.)
Defensively speaking, the original seems lacking when compared to the daddy - Delaying Tactics. The Mob Rule style card can potentially backfire, making DT the potentially more reliable option.
Regarding the Brujah or Nosferatu, yes, they do have titles. But static vampire votes are rarely the only thing used in decks looking to pass important votes. They're often peppered with a handful of Awe, Perfect Paragon and/or Bewitching Oration, to help out. They oten make passing votes in the face of your predator bringing out a Justicar and your grand-prey an Archbishop just that little bit easier. Just having the possibility can be interesting. We've all, surely, witnessed the conversation that goes "Well, I can pitch this Con Boon from my hand to tie the vote and make it fail" "Oh, but what if she has a modifier in his hand?" "Hmm, yeah, maybe I'd rather keep it and call it myself then..." All the while oblivious to the acting Methuselah's current lack of vote push modifiers.