Over the expansions we've seen a lot of additional status text for Vampires, including Red List, Black Hand; a new non-ect Anarchs; and also semi-titles like Seraph etc.
Well in the role-playing game, I always liked the idea of Autarkis. Including Autarkis in V:tES as a type of vampire is probably a dumb idea, but I'm going to include my thoughts here, maybe others will have some interesting ideas to expand on it.
I would expect an Autarkis vampire in V:tES would be considered Independent and clanless (but not Caitiff). There would probably be a restriction on their ability to cast votes in referendums.
The first thing to consider: is being Autarkis a good thing or a bad thing? Well if you want it to be a bad thing, like Red List, then you make some cards that allow you to force others to become Autarkis and make cards that do bad things to Autarkis. Red List tends to be combat oriented, you might make Autarkis the political version of it.
If you want it to be a good thing, then what are the advantages? Well like the Anarchs, Red List and Black Hand, a full set of cards would be required to support playing Autarkis vampires. Unfortunately, it would probably be just another version of "anarcks" which would be kinda dumb.
Can we have it both ways? I think so.
Hers's what I suggest: Make anti-Autarkis cards, and ways to force others to become Autarkis. Also, make Autarkis compatible with going Anarck. An Anarch Autarkis might remove some of the restrictions of being Autarkis, and at the same time you can make cards that require Autarkis.
The reasoning is that the anarchs don't have a unified political system. An Autarkis, who either by choice or force, does not have a sect, would likely be recruited by anarchs.
Independent Futurist. Contrarian (titled, X votes where X is the number of votes as the acting minion.) Target Vitals is always the better combat card.
> Ankha wrote:
> Could you explain what is Autarkis?
>
Sorry, for those of you not versed in WoD lore, Autarkis are vampires that are excluded from sect and clan. It is either by choice they remove themselves from vampire society, or they are shunned by their sect or clan.
Politically, Autarkis hold less weight than Caitiff. By and large, no one cares if an Autarkis is killed, and if the Camarilla or Sabbat moved into an area where an Autarkis resided, the Autarkis would likely just move on.
Independent Futurist. Contrarian (titled, X votes where X is the number of votes as the acting minion.) Target Vitals is always the better combat card.
I personally would prefer not to have a new keyword that has rules attachec (e.g. Red List). Making it something like Bahari or Camarilla would be preferably, should such a mechanic come into the game.
Of course, the current online sentiment is "no new mechanics please", so I'm not sure how this idea will go down with the community.
Suaku
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Seems like a fairly boring description/trait.
I'd much prefer to see them focussing on synergy between Black Hand vampires, generally more interesting and violent sabbat tactics and so on.
Introducing a non-Clan, non-Sect vampire trait that would basically only function as a penalty for vampires (e.g. Autarkis vampire cannot have titles) seems like a big pain in the butt.
Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
By that description I'd say the Autarkis should be either Red List, regular vampires with some political disadvantages, or most likely non-existent in the game. IMHO a whole new keyword that would by definition include only vampires, who more or less don't involve themselves in the Jyhad would be a bit over the top.
Jussi Hattara
Webmaster Extraordinaire
Finnish Politics!
I think Autarkis should be a political card.
Autarkis
Political Action
Req Prince, Justicar
Choose a ready younger non-titled vampire. Put this card on that vampire. The vampire with this card is now independent and clanless. He cannot gain non-anarch titles. No bloodhunt would be called on the vampire diablarizing this vampire. And it's controller burns 2 pool during his untap phase as long as this vampire is ready.
Maybe reword it. But you get the ideà.
What about this for a first draft?
Autarkis
[Action]
+3 stealth action. Only usable by a non-titled vampire.
Put this card on the acting vampire. This vampire is now Independent and cannot gain a title. Actions targeting this vampire cost an additional pool .
During your master phase, burn a master card from your hand or burn this card.
The concept behind this is that the vampire is removing themself from society, which makes him much harder to target. At the same time, it's more difficult for a Methuselah to motivate the vampire to take part in the Jyhad, hence the master burn.
I tried other options that included a 'cannot play cards during a referendum'-style effect to divorce them further from politics, but it got too wordy. Any more than a half-dozen lines and eyes begin to glaze over.
cheers
Disco Stu
> Baaliprimogen wrote:
> I think Autarkis should be a political card.
>
> Autarkis
> Political Action
> Req Prince, Justicar
> Choose a ready younger non-titled vampire. Put this card on that vampire. The vampire with this card is now independent and clanless. He cannot gain non-anarch titles. No bloodhunt would be called on the vampire diablarizing this vampire. And it's controller burns 2 pool during his untap phase as long as this vampire is ready.
>
Not that bad. Maybe 2 pool is a bit to much? Say 1 pool. And maybe some funny "Vote to move this vamp to another methuselah"?
"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."
Yeah. Maybe 2 pool is a bit much. But that's why I wrote ready. If that vampire goes to topor, you don't have to pay. Maybe it should have a clause that only lets a meth have one Autarkis or something.
I like to see that there were a couple suggestions about how to include Autarkis into v:tes (besides of course, Autarkis Persecution, which doesn't make sense lore-wise). The concept is already in the lore for vampire, and it would silly not to make use of it even if was only for a card or two.
But I would like to take the opportunity to address some issues with adding new game mechanics:
First of all, every time you make a new card that does something that isn't on an already printed card... you are adding new mechanics. Not every card forces the design team to make a rule change, but often enough a new card will show up in vken rulings or errata.
It's necessary to make new cards that do new and interesting things. Otherwise Obfuscate will get more stealth, Auspex will get more intercept, dominate will get more bleed, and we will continue creating the same vampire clans with slightly different emphasis on disciplines and special abilities.
That being said, my example of adding Autarkis as a vampire descriptor is not that far out of line. Most people seeing it in a game will say "oh that's kind of like red list, or anarch or something, what exactly does it do?" and the guy playing the deck will know what it does and explain it as needed. That's not so different when seeing any other unfamiliar card or vampire hit the table.
Also, one thing a new concept like that lets you do is revisit older groups of vampires. Since Autarkis vampires would likely be like scarce vampires (you wouldn't play a whole crypt of them, but you'd sprinkle them into other decks, or use them as "star players") it is feasible to create new vampires across all of the groupings. Possibly even make advanced versions of existing vampires that are autarkis!
Yeah, I know. Change is scary. But the design team is going to make new cards. Why not trust them to do what's good for the game? I do. Even if they dismiss everything I say. As long as I get them thinking.
Independent Futurist. Contrarian (titled, X votes where X is the number of votes as the acting minion.) Target Vitals is always the better combat card.
Hi Direwolf,
A good, well-reasoned post. Personally I don't have the same desire to see Autarkis as a new trait as you, but I agree that there is a case to make more. I think a problem with VTES is that there is a mix of 'active' keywords (Blood Cursed, Red List, Infernal) that have rules attached, and others which only exist in cards that target or name them (Seraph, Circle). I'd prefer to see Autarkis, and indeed most new keywords, as 'passive' rather than 'active' - there are already a lot of terms to remember, and the fewer times we need to reach for a rulebook the better.
In regards to the place of the Autarkis in the game, the fact that such vampires have, in most cases, consciously removed themselves from the Jyhad means they wouldn't necessarily form much of a role in VTES - indeed, it'd be counter-intuitive to the very nature of being Autarkis. That was what my version of the card attempted to do - it's a vampire who has gotten sick of it all and is attempting to remove themselves from the Great Game... but keeps getting dragged back in by a powerful Methuselah who is willing to sacrifice resources (master cards) to keep them engaged.
cheers
Disco Stu