I've been trying to think of ideas that alter what happens when a Methuselah gets ousted...which made me think of my previous card idea, Diminishing Returns. I've also been thinking about ways to make Sabbat politics more powerful, but different from Parity Shift. I'm not great at templating, but I like this idea...
Here, my friends, is the result.
Delayed Gratification
Political Action
Requires an Archbishop, Cardinal or Regent
Choose a Methuselah. The next time the chosen Methuselah's prey is ousted, he or she is not rewarded with pool immediately. Instead, the pool is gained during the chosen Methuselah's next untap phase afterwards.
I can't think of any deck I'd like to put this card in. The effect seems too minor and random to be worth (I'll have only 1 turn to try to kill him before he gets his pool, but I can't really control when he will oust his prey).
What do you think about:
Name: Delayed Gratification
Cardtype: Political Action
Requires an Archbishop, Cardinal or Regent
Choose another Methuselah who is not chosen by a Delayed Gratification. If this referendum is successful, put this card in play. The next time the chosen Methuselah's prey is ousted, the pool he or she should earn goes on this card instead of his or her pool. During his or her untap phase, he or she moves a counter to his or her pool.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Firstly, Sabbat is not about politics. It was always camarilla domain and vtes shows it properly.
Secondly, in case we assume that sabbat politics needs a boost, this card is just too weak to be played
Ankha, I actually had a thought similar to that originally, but I wasn't sure if it would be too strong or not...but yeah, my version's definitely weaker. Actually, I like yours, it's strong, definitely strong enough to play in some decks, would give a unique effect to the Sabbat to counter the dominance of Parity Shift and it's worded quite well. Thank you for improving on my idea!
> Non-existant user wrote:
> Is there a reason why Prisci cannot play it?
>
I guess not. Maybe designer intent?
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
If there is no special reason, then add Priscus to fit in the existing template. There is already far too much fine print in VTES, let's try to make things simple.
> Name: Delayed Gratification
> Cardtype: Political Action
> Requires an Archbishop, Cardinal or Regent
> Choose another Methuselah who is not chosen by a Delayed Gratification. If this referendum is successful, put this card in play. The next time the chosen Methuselah's prey is ousted, the pool he or she should earn goes on this card instead of his or her pool. During his or her untap phase, he or she moves a counter to his or her pool.
>
Delayed Gratification
Political Action
Requires a Priscus, Archbishop, Cardinal or Regent.
Choose any number of other Methuselahs who do not have a Delayed Gratification counter. If this referendum is successful, and give the chosen Methuselah a Delayed Gratification counter. When their prey is ousted they will not gain the pool for ousting their prey as normal. Instead they will gain 1 pool during each of their untap phases until they have gained the correct amount. When A Methuselah has gained the last counter, burn their Delayed Gratification counter.
Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
> Delayed Gratification
> Political Action
> Requires a Priscus, Archbishop, Cardinal or Regent.
> Choose any number of other Methuselahs who do not have a Delayed Gratification counter. If this referendum is successful, and give the chosen Methuselah a Delayed Gratification counter. When their prey is ousted they will not gain the pool for ousting their prey as normal. Instead they will gain 1 pool during each of their untap phases until they have gained the correct amount. When A Methuselah has gained the last counter, burn their Delayed Gratification counter.
>
In this shape it's much better, interesting and worth including in the deck
> Juggernaut1981 wrote:
>
> > Name: Delayed Gratification
> > Cardtype: Political Action
> > Requires an Archbishop, Cardinal or Regent
> > Choose another Methuselah who is not chosen by a Delayed Gratification. If this referendum is successful, put this card in play. The next time the chosen Methuselah's prey is ousted, the pool he or she should earn goes on this card instead of his or her pool. During his or her untap phase, he or she moves a counter to his or her pool.
> >
> Delayed Gratification
> Political Action
> Requires a Priscus, Archbishop, Cardinal or Regent.
> Choose any number of other Methuselahs who do not have a Delayed Gratification counter. If this referendum is successful, and give the chosen Methuselah a Delayed Gratification counter. When their prey is ousted they will not gain the pool for ousting their prey as normal. Instead they will gain 1 pool during each of their untap phases until they have gained the correct amount. When A Methuselah has gained the last counter, burn their Delayed Gratification counter.
>
Why a counter instead of the card?
Unless I missed something, I prefer to put the card in play because:
- it's easier to remember than a token ("is that a pool?" one may ask after a few turns)
- the card text is always visible
- it's easier to keep track of the pool yet to gain to put it on the card
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
I agree with Ankha, putting it on the card is much more elegant. The only change I'd make to the first version is allowing Prisci to call it, something I basically left out of the original, too weak card just by simply forgetting to include them. Of course it would require playtesting, but I think a card like that would actually be printable, uniquely interesting, and fairly rewarding to Sabbat politics. The situational negotiations that could go on when placing this card on a Methuselah other than your prey are very interesting, too.
Well, the reason being that by creating counters, like Hand Counters, you can affect multiple players at the same time. The biggest problem I have with the card is that I have to pack quite a number, rather than just putting out the number of counters I want when I get the first copy of this card.
Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
> Juggernaut1981 wrote:
> Well, the reason being that by creating counters, like Hand Counters, you can affect multiple players at the same time. The biggest problem I have with the card is that I have to pack quite a number, rather than just putting out the number of counters I want when I get the first copy of this card.
>
Ok, I suspected something had changed but couldn't see what.
You write "Choose any number of Methuselah" whereas the initial version was choosing only 1 Methuselah.
Choosing multiple Methuselah is stronger, maybe too much, maybe not, but I'd rather stick to 1 methuselah and a card put in play.
Besides, I don't see the point in choosing multiple methuselahs except if you have the vote lock and choose everyone else, in which case it may be too strong. (Punishing all other Methuselahs is not the same as granting each methuselah some special gift such as +1 hand size (Year of Fortune) or 2 MPA (Rumors of Gehenna))
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Who said you are trying to choose every Methuselah? Just the same way that people choose the players they want on the table at the end of the game for things like Year of Fortune and Rumours of Gehenna... You would choose their preys to take the counters. The only time you'd choose everyone is if you wanted to have the entire table turn around and smash you off the table. But it might be a good thing to do on your prey and predator... and get your cross-tables to back you if you need it.
Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
I agree that sabbat politics certainly needs a boost. also not that it matters that much, but I recall a lot of politics in sabbat (just of a more savage nature).