Double Discipline cards Q

Q: if in a card there is an option that have two disciplines in it , like "Read the Winds" (ANI/AUS) the vamp that use it need to have the 2 disciplines to use it, or only 1? Is needed 2 disciplines to use the card? for exemple Wendy Wade can use it but Vliam Andor not in inferior. -- --------------------------------------------------------------- Rpst asap thx ;-)

"Garou" <ga...@wanadoo.es> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:9vf9lk$157$1...@news.wanadoo.es... > Q: if in a card there is an option that have two disciplines in it , like > "Read the Winds" (ANI/AUS) the vamp that use it need to have the 2 > disciplines to use it, or only 1? as by card text

At the card text doens't say that the vamp needs the 2 disciplines to play the card. I mean if between the 2 disciplines ara a " and" or "or" : "ANI and AUS" , or "ANI or AUS" to play it. Sorry for my bad englihs. -- --------------------------------------------------------------- Rpst asap thx ;-) "Sascha Neumayr" <sascha....@gmx.net> escribió en el mensaje news:3c1b3499$0$30298$5039...@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at... [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Please don't put your reply above the text to which you're replying. It makes it difficult to follow the conversation. The effect requires whichever icon(s) are printed in front of the effect. If the effect lists one icon, then only that discipline is required (and at the level indicated). If the effect lists two icons, then those two disciplines are required (and at the respective levels indicated). -- LSJ -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

> If the effect lists two icons, then those two disciplines are required > (and at the respective levels indicated). I'm certain this is the case, but I just want to verify in case it ever comes up: If you have a card that requires <ani><aus>, a vamp that has ANI aus can play it, yes? Sorrow --- If you're frightened of dying and... and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.

> The effect requires whichever icon(s) are printed in front of the effect. > If the effect lists one icon, then only that discipline is required > (and at the level indicated). > If the effect lists two icons, then those two disciplines are required > (and at the respective levels indicated). Can Ian Forestal "fake out" two disciplines at basic at the same time, for purposes of playing, for example, the obf/cel card? What about Infernal Familiar? Do you have to pay it just one investment counter to play a multi-discipline card that requires two disciplines you don't have? Or do you have to pay it two for that action?

"Sorrow" <cbo...@apdi.net> wrote in message news:u1mivij...@corp.supernews.com... > > If the effect lists two icons, then those two disciplines are required > > (and at the respective levels indicated). > > I'm certain this is the case, but I just want to verify in case it ever > comes up: > > If you have a card that requires <ani><aus>, a vamp that has ANI aus > can play it, yes? well, yes =) the opposite would be seriously stupid ! [ quoted text not captured ]

-- --------------------------------------------------------------- Rpst asap thx ;-) "Reyda" <re...@noos.fr> escribió en el mensaje news:9vfm3c$135$1...@neon.noos.net... > > "Sorrow" <cbo...@apdi.net> wrote in message > news:u1mivij...@corp.supernews.com... > > > If the effect lists two icons, then those two disciplines are required > > > (and at the respective levels indicated). > > > > I'm certain this is the case, but I just want to verify in case it ever > > comes up: > > > > If you have a card that requires <ani><aus>, a vamp that has ANI aus > > can play it, yes? > > well, yes =) > the opposite would be seriously stupid ! Well , but at how level? ANI aus -- > can play the sup level of the card ? or he needs to have both disciplines at sup. ? Vamp disci. : inf + inf = card option: inf sup + inf = ??? sup + sup = sup

Jozxyqk wrote: > > > The effect requires whichever icon(s) are printed in front of the effect. > > If the effect lists one icon, then only that discipline is required > > (and at the level indicated). > > If the effect lists two icons, then those two disciplines are required > > (and at the respective levels indicated). > > Can Ian Forestal "fake out" two disciplines at basic at the same time, for > purposes of playing, for example, the obf/cel card? No. His special allows him to play a single-discipline effect as if he had that discipline. He could not even play a chi/aus card (unless he gained Chimerstry somehow). > What about Infernal Familiar? Do you have to pay it just one investment > counter to play a multi-discipline card that requires two disciplines you > don't have? Or do you have to pay it two for that action? Same story - singles only. [ quoted text not captured ]

Sorrow wrote: > If you have a card that requires <ani><aus>, a vamp that has ANI aus > can play it, yes? Yes. Having the superior *is* having the normal (plus some). [ quoted text not captured ]

Garou wrote: > Well , but at how level? ANI aus -- > can play the sup level of the card ? What sup level? You could play the ANI aus level, but not the ani AUS level or the ANI AUS level. ("Sup level" isn't really appropriate for multi-discipline cards, you should refer to the effects by the disciplines and levels required.) [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <HOIS7.17647$5W5.7...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, Jozxyqk <jfeu...@eecs.tufts.edu> writes: >Can Ian Forestal "fake out" two disciplines at basic at the same time, for >purposes of playing, for example, the obf/cel card? Given the use of the singular in his card text, I'd have to rule (were I judging) that he couldn't. >What about Infernal Familiar? Do you have to pay it just one investment >counter to play a multi-discipline card that requires two disciplines you >don't have? Or do you have to pay it two for that action? They can only play it if it requires "a" discipline they do not have, by card text. I would, were I judging and this came up, rule that, say, a vampire with Infernal Familiar and, say, dom/tha/aus trying to play an ani+aus card could do it, but they couldn't play a for+obf (picking random disciplines). -- James Coupe PGP 0x5D623D5D It's been a long road, getting from there to here EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA213D7E It's been a long time, and my time is finally near 668C3695D623D5D I will see my dream come alive at last, I will touch the sky And they're not gonna hold me down no more, no they're not gonna change my mind

In message <9vg1ej$erj$1...@news.wanadoo.es>, Garou <ga...@wanadoo.es> writes: >Well , but at how level? ANI aus -- > can play the sup level of the card ? >or he needs to have both disciplines at sup. ? To play the <ANI> <AUS> version of the card, you need both ANI and AUS. If you have ANI and aus, or ani and AUS, or ani and aus you could play the <ani> <aus> version of the card. [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <3C1BAE98...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vtesrep@white- wolf.com> writes: >> What about Infernal Familiar? Do you have to pay it just one investment >> counter to play a multi-discipline card that requires two disciplines you >> don't have? Or do you have to pay it two for that action? > >Same story - singles only. Can you clarify this? Will Infernal Familiar work in a situation where the vampire knows one of the required disciplines but not the other? [ quoted text not captured ]

James Coupe wrote: > > In message <3C1BAE98...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vtesrep@white- > wolf.com> writes: > >> What about Infernal Familiar? Do you have to pay it just one investment > >> counter to play a multi-discipline card that requires two disciplines you > >> don't have? Or do you have to pay it two for that action? > > > >Same story - singles only. > > Can you clarify this? Same as the Ian clarification (snipped from above). > Will Infernal Familiar work in a situation where the vampire knows one > of the required disciplines but not the other? No. [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <3C1C9E75...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vtesrep@white- wolf.com> writes: >> Will Infernal Familiar work in a situation where the vampire knows one >> of the required disciplines but not the other? > >No. It does seem that the vampire would be attempting to play a card that requires a discipline they do not have, however. [ quoted text not captured ]

James Coupe wrote: > > In message <3C1C9E75...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vtesrep@white- > wolf.com> writes: > >> Will Infernal Familiar work in a situation where the vampire knows one > >> of the required disciplines but not the other? > > > >No. > > It does seem that the vampire would be attempting to play a card that > requires a discipline they do not have, however. The card doesn't require "a" discipline. [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <3C1CFF3B...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vtesrep@white- wolf.com> writes: >> It does seem that the vampire would be attempting to play a card that >> requires a discipline they do not have, however. > >The card doesn't require "a" discipline. No, it requires "a Discipline he or she does not have". [ quoted text not captured ]

James Coupe wrote: > > In message <3C1CFF3B...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vtesrep@white- > wolf.com> writes: > >> It does seem that the vampire would be attempting to play a card that > >> requires a discipline they do not have, however. > > > >The card doesn't require "a" discipline. > > No, it requires "a Discipline he or she does not have". It requires two disciplines, one of which he doesn't have. [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <3C1DD5C2...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vtesrep@white- wolf.com> writes: >> >The card doesn't require "a" discipline. >> >> No, it requires "a Discipline he or she does not have". > >It requires two disciplines, one of which he doesn't have. Certainly; but Infernal Familiar, by card text, is only referring to the discipline the vampire doesn't have. It is not "When this vampire plays a card requiring a discipline..... If they don't not have it..." It is "a Discipline he or she does not have" as a full phrase. Other requirements are not referenced - only that the card requires "a Discipline he or she does not have". Does the card (in the situation of an "ani/aus" card where the Infernal Familiar vampire only has "aus") require "a Discipline he or she does not have"? I can only answer this as yes. The card requires Animalism, which is a discipline they do not have. It also requires other things. Also, by [LSJ 20011203], a Path of Paradox will reduce a CHI/AUS card. But the card does not require "Chimerstry", it requires Chimerstry and Auspex. Why can the text there - "cards that require Chimerstry" - ignore the Auspex aspect, but analogous text here - "requires a Discipline he or she does not have" - cannot also ignore the other requirements? Would a hypothetical card that required Animalism and the title of Prince by playable by a Prince with Infernal Familiar? It seems to me that the answer would be "yes" - since it "requires a Discipline he or she does not have", and the requirements that the vampire *does* fulfil are not referenced by card text. Infernal Familiar does not reference, so far as I can tell, cards which require "a Discipline" but a far more specific and qualified form - "a Discipline he or she does not have". -- [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Ah. <White Flag> I yield to your ironclad logic. REVERSAL: Infernal Familiar will supply a (single) missing Discipline (at normal) towards the play of a card that requires multiple Disciplines. [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <3C1E0514...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vtesrep@white- wolf.com> writes: >Ah. ><White Flag> >I yield to your ironclad logic. Yay! (Xian, I'd best get something good for help those wimpy Thaumaturgy users, dagnamnit. Your DNA for human cloning acceptable.) [ quoted text not captured ]

James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:<XHUBKLDw...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk>... > In message <3C1E0514...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vtesrep@white- > wolf.com> writes: > >Ah. > ><White Flag> > >I yield to your ironclad logic. > > Yay! Good show, old chap! > (Xian, I'd best get something good for help those wimpy Thaumaturgy > users, dagnamnit. Your DNA for human cloning acceptable.) Heh. Not that I use Infernal Pact/Ian Forrestal much... Human cloning? I'm not sure what would happen if there were a mess of me running around. It'd be trouble, that's for certain. Unless you only meant to create one...of course then, you'd probably have trouble keeping him in line. :) ObV:tES - I *just* figured out that Engling Fury is worded the way it is at superior not as reminder text, but for repeat-action environments. Crazy. What will they come up with next? Clones, probably. Xian

>> Certainly; but Infernal Familiar, by card text, is only referring to the >> discipline the vampire doesn't have. < snip Mr. Coupe's wonderful explanation > >Ah. ><White Flag> >I yield to your ironclad logic. > >REVERSAL: >Infernal Familiar will supply a (single) missing Discipline (at normal) >towards >the play of a card that requires multiple Disciplines. Hurrah! Nice job James! Go Infernal Familiar and Thaumaturgy! =) Halcyan 2

In message <dbc1153.01121...@posting.google.com>, Xian <xb...@qwest.net> writes: >Human cloning? I'm not sure what would happen if there were a mess of >me running around. It'd be trouble, that's for certain. I could sell off your cheek bones. [ quoted text not captured ]