rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Hidden Lurker Question

5 messages from 4 participants · 14 December 1995 – 27 December 1995
original thread on Google Groups

Scott Lee

Since Hidden Lurker is an action, it can be blocked with no intercept needed. And if it is blocked then the action has no effect. 1) Does this mean I must have some kind of stealth in order to attack the minion of my choice? 2) Does "blocking minion" in the card text refer to my opponents minion in the "previous" combat or my opponents minion that is "about to enter" combat. This is a confusing situation because if the action can be blocked and the action has no effect, then my opponents minion gets a strike the first round. Whatta ya think? Scott Bruise and Bleed

L. Scott Johnson

In article <4apt1r$5...@stargate.promus.com>, Scott Lee <sl...@promus.com> wrote: >Since Hidden Lurker is an action, it can be blocked with no intercept >needed. And if it is blocked then the action has no effect. > >1) Does this mean I must have some kind of stealth in order to attack the >minion of my choice? Some stealth or a tapped out defensive line :-) >2) Does "blocking minion" in the card text refer to my opponents minion >in the "previous" combat or my opponents minion that is "about to enter" >combat. Previous combatant, certainly. Possibly could mean either, depending on interpretation, however. >This is a confusing situation because if the action can be blocked and >the action has no effect, then my opponents minion gets a strike the >first round. As printed, correct. This is incongruous with the effects of Fast Reaction (which is worded identically except for the swap between acting and blocking and between acting and reacting). The card should be an action modifier (making it compatible with it's twin Reaction card - Fast Reaction.) As a modifier, it works completely and intuitively. As an action, is works poorly at best, and can lead to confusion. At one time, WotC Rules' Team issued errata making it an Action Modifier, but they have since rescinded that errata (and the VtES printing is again an action). (How many actions have to remind you to tap the acting vampire? How many remind you that they can only be played by untapped vampires?) If you have to play it as an action (at zero stealth), then the "blocking minion" text will only apply if the action is not blocked. All action text applies only to successful actions, except when the action text explicitly states that it is describing what happens when the action is blocked (cf. Rapid Healing). As an action, you may use many of them in succession (each Lurker becomes a new acting vampire). Fast Reaction is not "stackable", since only the first minion was a blocking minion. Fast Reaction, on the other hand, is unblockable (the text on Jyhad Hidden Lurker is written on the assumption of unblockability, but it doesn't work out this way since it is an action) As an action modifier, HL is unblockable (like Fast Reaction) and isn't stackable (like Fast Reaction). Since it's worded the same, why not let it act the same? -- ----- L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) | The opinions expressed are mine Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger | and subject to card text

Stephen Beaulieu

In article <4aq3vv$8...@crl.crl.com>, lsc...@crl.com (L. Scott Johnson) wrote: : As an action modifier, HL is unblockable (like Fast Reaction) and isn't : stackable (like Fast Reaction). Since it's worded the same, why not : let it act the same? Well, the only reason I can think of not to have it be an action mod is the ruling on Cloak the Gathering. Both would be action modifiers that minons other than the one acting would play. But CtG has been ruled to be playable by a tapped vamp, becuae action modifers don't inherently include a tap to them. So, if that ruling followed through on to Hidden Lurker you could use a tapped minion to take that action mod, thereby giving that minion effectively two actions in the turn. There is probably an easy way around this with an errata or a ruling, but as it stands it isn't that great. Just my view on it. stephen beaulieu hi...@mail.utexas.edu

L. Scott Johnson

In article <hippo-15129...@gill.hrc.utexas.edu>, [ quoted text not captured ] Quite right, sorry I overlooked that point. From the house rules list: Hidden Lurker - is an action modifier, not an action. Text as follows: Usable only by an untapped Vampire other than the Acting Minion after the Acting Minion is blocked and combat is over. Tap this Vampire. This Vampire now enters combat with the Blocking Minion. The first round of combat, the Blocking Minion cannot use any strikes. Superior: As above, but with an optional Press. [LSJ] [JC] [CSA] [ASHK] [JHJ] [ quoted text not captured ]

Rory E Fansler

> Since Hidden Lurker is an action, it can be blocked with no intercept > needed. And if it is blocked then the action has no effect. > >Actually I have a problem with the blocking minion part. It assumes that the first minion had to have been blocked to get into combat (as I interpt the card) but I feel that as long as there was combat the card is usable.