Who do you think is the best Vampire

Who do you think is the single most powerful vampire in the game? In our group, Carlotta and Dragos are vamps that cause people to grown when they come out. Carlotta with her ability to- at +1 stealth- trade a card from your hand for one in your ash heap. And Dragos (Tzimisce), who doesn't have to burn blood to play combat cards. Anyone who has played Vicissitude know how deadly this Vampire can get in a round. If one vampire doesn't stand out to you as one better than the rest, then maybe tell us your favorite on the basis of card art or something like that.

In article <365299F0...@ix.netcom.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] Dragos, yes. He's one of the canonical 'broken' vampires - his open-ended special falls into what some of us would call the Real Bad Idea category. Carlotta's useful, but I've never felt that she's 'too good'. Given tourney rules, there aren't really any library cards that are especially abusable just by getting them back into your hand over and over, and her ability is relatively slow, since she can only do it once a turn, and if she does, she usually can't take any other actions. Other 'really good' vampires: Jimmy Dunn. 5 points of disciplines for 4 capacity, all of them really good for combat, and a weird disad that is actually an advantage if someone else gets their JD out before you do... Beast, Leatherface of Detroit. 6 points of disciplines, +1 hand damage, and a built in Rush. Most excellent. All the IC members, pretty much. +2 bleed and 4 votes is good. Jost Werner; Rebekka, Chantry Elder of Munich; Muaziz, Archon of Ulugh Beg. +1 stealth on all actions is tres bon. Not to mention Muaziz' no-blood-hunt. For art (and a kick-ass special, though she 'pays' enough for it that it doesn't put her into the 'maybe broken' class), my favorite is probably Anneke. She was my original favorite vampire. Oh yeah, and I like Al-Ashrad, Amr of Alamut's (I think it's him) picture a lot too. Love those flames. Josh 'c'mon, you boinked the undead... what was it like?' -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

Bryan Nelson wrote: > > Who do you think is the single most powerful vampire in the game? In > our group, Carlotta and Dragos are vamps that cause people to grown when > they come out. Carlotta with her ability to- at +1 stealth- trade a card > from your hand for one in your ash heap. And Dragos (Tzimisce), who > doesn't have to burn blood to play combat cards. Anyone who has played > Vicissitude know how deadly this Vampire can get in a round. > If one vampire doesn't stand out to you as one better than the rest, > then maybe tell us your favorite on the basis of card art or something > like that. I don't think there is just *one* single most powerful vampire in the game. Depending on the game situation and your deck, there are probably six or seven top level vamps. I'll first add two of the +1 stealth vamps, Jost Werner and Muaziz, Archon of Ulugh Beg. Muaziz's no blood hunt clause makes her really powerful, and for Jost, you only spend six pool to bring him out. Other powerful vamps would be Volker, The Puppet Prince, Jimmy Dunn, and Beast, the Leatherface of Detroit. Volker will give you a quick voting edge; Jimmy Dunn... He'd have to be contested (burned) a whole lot more before I'd consider his abilities balanced; and Beast and a Torn Signpost is rush and four hand damage. (Alone rush and two hand damage isn't shabby, but...) So what if he can't have a .44 magnum, he's going to pummel most stuff to the ground. I have only seen Dragos a couple times, but I'd say its fair to include him, as Vicissitude's expense is a problem until he comes along. I don't agree with you on Carlotta Giovanni. I think she is a really good vampire, but not one of the top six or seven. It's nice to surprise people and retrieve a card from time to time, but unless your environment is sealed deck play or in some other way limits the card pool, you should have an extra copy of the card in your deck/hand. Hope this starts some debate, Rob Grau

In article <365299F0...@ix.netcom.com>, Bryan Nelson <bry...@ix.netcom.com> writes > Who do you think is the single most powerful vampire in the game? In >our group, Carlotta and Dragos are vamps that cause people to grown when >they come out. Well, I suppose but not really.... > Carlotta with her ability to- at +1 stealth- trade a card >from your hand for one in your ash heap. Which means they have to trade cards they don't want/need from their hand, so they ahve a hand with crap (for the current situation) cards in. >And Dragos (Tzimisce), who >doesn't have to burn blood to play combat cards. Anyone who has played >Vicissitude know how deadly this Vampire can get in a round. Just hit harder and faster with Potence. Banish him. Fortitude. Majesty. The Tzimisce have no real S:CE or S:Dodge defence. > If one vampire doesn't stand out to you as one better than the rest, >then maybe tell us your favorite on the basis of card art or something >like that. Personally, from a power level, there aren't really any vampires I think are better than the other, at least, not in a "best" sense. I think virtually all of the vampires are playable, and aren't too powerful normally. A few vampires are, perhaps, a little too cheap for their abilities but I don't think there is a best vampire. Card art wise.... He of the Shrunken Head Whose Name We Cannot Mention Lest We Start a Huge Row, Virgil (I think - the slightly impressionist !Malk), Mariel and so forth. I also like Gitane St. Clair for no reason at all. -- James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England) Vampire: Elder Kindred Network http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net

> In article <365299F0...@ix.netcom.com>, > Bryan Nelson <bry...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > Who do you think is the single most powerful vampire in the game? In > > our group, Carlotta and Dragos are vamps that cause people to grown when > > they come out. Carlotta with her ability to- at +1 stealth- trade a card > > from your hand for one in your ash heap. And Dragos (Tzimisce), who > > doesn't have to burn blood to play combat cards. Anyone who has played > > Vicissitude know how deadly this Vampire can get in a round. > > If one vampire doesn't stand out to you as one better than the rest, > > then maybe tell us your favorite on the basis of card art or something > > like that. > Presenting for your pleasure the inimitable Gideon Fontaine [Ventrue 3 PRE] Swift to field of battle, superior in politics, majestic in the whirling melee, sartorially refined & a sneering omen for my oponents. artaxerxes [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <72vctb$o8j$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Daralathas@my- dejanews.com writes > >Presenting for your pleasure the inimitable Gideon Fontaine [Ventrue 3 PRE] > >Swift to field of battle If you mean bleeding, then he can get a good bleed, but he can't get stealth. >, superior in politics No votes, so needs a lot of transients. >, majestic in the whirling >melee, And Majesty gets trampled on by combat decks. >sartorially refined & a sneering omen for my oponents. I take your point, however. A very nice vampire who could do a lot of things with just a little tweaking. Nice and cheap - just drop a permanent of some kind on him to help - say, an Obf skill card for stealth or something like that. [ quoted text not captured ]

James Coupe (ve...@nospam.demon.co.uk) wrote: : >And Dragos (Tzimisce), who : >doesn't have to burn blood to play combat cards. Anyone who has played : >Vicissitude know how deadly this Vampire can get in a round. : Just hit harder and faster with Potence. Banish him. Fortitude. : Majesty. The Tzimisce have no real S:CE or S:Dodge defence. Dragos, especially once given superior vicissitude, is an awesome vampire, arguably one of the best in the game. > Just hit harder and faster with Potence. You cannot "hit harder and faster" when Dragos plays Blood of Acid for free, even at inferior BoA renders potence decks useless. > Fortitude BoA, Carrion Crows, Drawing out the Beast > Majesty / S:CE Cat's Guidance > S:Dodge Scorpion Sting Granted, a well tuned deck is not going to have all these elements. Dave the Romantic (Prince of Denver) commonly plays a Tzimisce intercept/combat deck that (ab)uses Dragos and Meshenka. Intercept, DotB, Carrion Crows, BoA, Body Arsenal. Take massive amounts of damage. Untap, repeat. It is a very effective deck that often controls play at the table. Another very good vampire not yet mentioned is Masika - the perfect Toreador. My favorite vampire is Joaquina Amaya, but it has nothing to do with her being broken or among the "best". K Fehlberg --- Ask me about Crusade:Denver kmfe...@ouray.cudenver.edu

In article <72ujr2$d5$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, jt...@cornell.edu (Joshua Duffin) wrote: > In article <365299F0...@ix.netcom.com>, > Bryan Nelson <bry...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > Who do you think is the single most powerful vampire in the game? > Beast, Leatherface of Detroit. 6 points of disciplines, +1 hand damage, and > a built in Rush. Most excellent. Mmm...Beastly goodness...though no retainers hurts a little...not *lots*, but a little...I keep thinking Beast with a couple of Murder of Crows or Raptors would be truly evil...'course it looks like he can't get them by any means whatsoever, according to LSJ's page...ah well, I'll have to live without that... > All the IC members, pretty much. +2 bleed and 4 votes is good. Harrod? Are you kidding? And though her special is cool, Alexandra isn't that exciting, either. (Does anyone else feel that the big Toreador are under-disciplined? Okay...they have groovy specials, but I'd trade a few of those for a better discipline spread...I mean, they're all AUS PRE CEL with maybe dom) > For art (and a kick-ass special, though she 'pays' enough for it that it > doesn't put her into the 'maybe broken' class), my favorite is probably > Anneke. She was my original favorite vampire. Oh yeah, and I like Al-Ashrad, > Amr of Alamut's (I think it's him) picture a lot too. Love those flames. Mmm...Anneke...the vampire I used to look like...(even had the sunglasses...) before I got my haircut. (Okay, I didn't have the sides of my head tattooed...) Hey! No one has mentioned the king of all vampires...Igo! Go Igo! Igo for Dictator-for Life! Xian Mmm...Igo... "You can just ignore it...and let hand jam sort them out." --Jasper Phillips [ quoted text not captured ]

Brian Nelso wrote: "Who do you think is the single most powerful vampire in the game? In our group, Carlotta and Dragos are vamps that cause people to grown when they come out. Carlotta with her ability to- at +1 stealth- trade a card from your hand for one in your ash heap. And Dragos (Tzimisce), who doesn't have to burn blood to play combat cards. Anyone who has played Vicissitude know how deadly this Vampire can get in a round." Dragos is pretty strong, but as the Tzimisceee are not all that good to begin with, he isn't _that_ good. Carlotta is very strong in card limit games, but in standard, constructed Jyhad, her ability is handy, but not overly so. From my point of view: KoKo, KoKo, Koko- He is _the_ killer (like Chow Yun Fat, but sans guns). Bride of KoKo, Hasina, is just as potent (ahem...) and often overlooked. Beast-Very strong in either a Nosferatu or Brujah Rush deck. And he has +1 hand damage to boot. Anvil-The original broken vampire--too many disciplines for his cost, all of them very good, _and_ he is a Primogen. Nothing but great. Goes in many, many decks. Jimmy Dunn-a 4 with 2 superior combat disciplinesand Fortitude. Highly potent, and his disadvantage is just as often an advantage as not. Muaziz-Free +1 stealth. Free diablere. With a Tremere deck, these are very powerful. Peter D Bakija PD...@aol.com "No other object has been misidentified as a flying saucer more often than the planet Venus." -Jesse "The Governor" Ventura

In article <7300o7$9r0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Xian <xi...@waste.org> wrote: >> > Who do you think is the single most powerful vampire in the game? [snip!] >Mmm...Anneke...the vampire I used to look like...(even had the sunglasses...) >before I got my haircut. (Okay, I didn't have the sides of my head >tattooed...) Hah! Now I have sole claim to the title of wannabe Nosferatu Potence Monger! I think if you looked like Anneke, you definitly have to step down (well, unless it was a really bad haircut ;-P ). On a side note, I was recently told I look kinda like Chuck Norris, if only I'd dress like a cowboy. I'm still not sure if it was an insult. ;-( >Hey! No one has mentioned the king of all vampires...Igo! Go Igo! Igo for >Dictator-for Life! I don't know, I've always been partial to Watenda... There's something about keeping your oppon... err, victems heads on a string. -- /\ Jasper Phillips /VVVVVVVVVVVVVV|~"~"~"~"~"~"----------........____ jaz j^^^^^^^^^^^^^\/"~"~"~"~-----------........._____ ~"~--. * http://www.engr.orst.edu/~philljas/ "~"~'--`

In article <7307lf$gt2$1...@news.NERO.NET>, phil...@nd.ENGR.ORST.EDU (Jasper Phillips) wrote: > In article <7300o7$9r0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Xian <xi...@waste.org> wrote: > >> > Who do you think is the single most powerful vampire in the game? > > [snip!] > > >Mmm...Anneke...the vampire I used to look like...(even had the sunglasses...) > >before I got my haircut. (Okay, I didn't have the sides of my head > >tattooed...) > > Hah! Now I have sole claim to the title of wannabe Nosferatu Potence > Monger! D'oh! I *knew* I shouldn't have admitted that...I'll get you yet...and I'll get ya good...oh yes, I will! > I think if you looked like Anneke, you definitly have to step down > (well, unless it was a really bad haircut ;-P ). Grr...well, in my new capacity as Tremere stalking horse, I guess I'd have to step down anyway...course, *I* created the true Tremere/Nosferatu hybrid deck...hehehe...pot/tha is still funny... > On a side note, I was recently told I look kinda like Chuck Norris, > if only I'd dress like a cowboy. I'm still not sure if it was an insult. ;-( At least it wasn't "You look like Chuck Norris *because* you dress like a cowboy..." I've been compared to too many people to be worried about it anymore...usually it's meant as a compliment, even if the person that you're being compared to is unattractive...(cf. Trent Reznor...he's *not* the hottest guy in the world...) > >Hey! No one has mentioned the king of all vampires...Igo! Go Igo! Igo for > >Dictator-for Life! > > I don't know, I've always been partial to Watenda... What? How can you pass up that charming smile? Igo rules! And he has Smudge's missing discipline! What a conniving bastard! Gotta love him... > There's something about keeping your oppon... err, victems heads on a string. My current version of Peter's Nos rush deck has all the good little kids plus Watenda & Beast...I can't decide which is better, so I play both & am pleased if either comes out... Xian, thinking of the finishing touches for his Nosferatu costume...(geek!) [ quoted text not captured ]

On Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:07:06 GMT, Daral...@my-dejanews.com wrote: > >Presenting for your pleasure the inimitable Gideon Fontaine [Ventrue 3 PRE] > >Swift to field of battle, superior in politics, majestic in the whirling >melee, sartorially refined & a sneering omen for my oponents. and easily Immortal Grappled and pummelled senseless. Or Psyched upon the first majesty-untap and Sewer-Lidded into torpor. -- Derek (replying by email? remove the nospam from my domain :)

On Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:47:19 +0000, James Coupe <ve...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote: > >I take your point, however. A very nice vampire who could do a lot of >things with just a little tweaking. Nice and cheap - just drop a >permanent of some kind on him to help - say, an Obf skill card for >stealth or something like that. i'm a big fan of all the 3-cap, one-superior-discipline vamps. Isabel de Leon, Gideon, Chandler Hungerford, Blythe, Rudolfo Giovanni (with weenie aus as a bonus plan), etc... all astonishingly handy in a crypt to a deck's primary discipline. Even the 4-cap superior discipline vamps are damn nice (Agrippina, Olivia, Gloria Giovanni, take your pick) to have around. But I think someone like Jimmy Dunn probably still beats all of these out for "significantly more powerful". =) [ quoted text not captured ]

Bryan Nelson wrote: > Who do you think is the single most powerful vampire in the game? Let me distinguish between most *powerful* and most *useful* vampire in the game. The most powerful vampire will help you nothing if you cannot use his power properly in your deck. There is no single best vampire, only best vampires to perform special tasks. Some of the most useful vampires around are: -The vamps without Obfuscate albeit permanent +1 stealth on each action (Jost, Rebecca, Muaziz), which are all *much* cheaper as the vamps which *have* a stealthy background and disciplines. -Beast and Jimmy Dunn in Potence (Celerity) combat decks -All Inner Circle Vamps with their 4 votes each AND +2 bleed AND (mostly) with good specials AND useful disciplines -All 3 caps with one in-clan discipline at the superior level (and Tremere have even Blythe & this 2 cap Caitiff) - Princes / Justicars because they can use the Traditions of the Camarilla Michael Beer

In article <7300o7$9r0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, xi...@waste.org (Xian) wrote: [snip] > Mmm...Beastly goodness...though no retainers hurts a little...not *lots*, but > a little...I keep thinking Beast with a couple of Murder of Crows or Raptors > would be truly evil...'course it looks like he can't get them by any means > whatsoever, according to LSJ's page...ah well, I'll have to live without > that... Eh, sure it'd be nice, but come on, he's got a built in rush, and we all know there are no better actions than rushing for a beatin' machine like Beast to take. ^_^ > > All the IC members, pretty much. +2 bleed and 4 votes is good. > > Harrod? Are you kidding? And though her special is cool, Alexandra isn't > that exciting, either. (Does anyone else feel that the big Toreador are > under-disciplined? Okay...they have groovy specials, but I'd trade a few of > those for a better discipline spread...I mean, they're all AUS PRE CEL with > maybe dom) Well, you know, 'pretty much'. Gwendolyn's only special was that she was the only POT FOR vamp (I think) till Lazverinus came along... I mean, even Harrod's special is better than that. (Though not much.) Yah, some ICs got way excellent specials (cough, Arika, cough) and some just didn't, but they all got +2 bleed and 4 votes and a bunch of disciplines, and that's pretty decent. As for the biggie Toreador, yeah, the old ones paid a lot for their nifty abilities, especially Anneke and Masika. Francois Villon is real nice though - he could probably have also been on my list of the good vamps. > Hey! No one has mentioned the king of all vampires...Igo! Go Igo! Igo for > Dictator-for Life! Ah yes, Igo. He's so hungry. Josh killed by the new fame while I wasn't looking [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <7318t4$9t2$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, jt...@cornell.edu (Joshua Duffin) wrote: > In article <7300o7$9r0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, > xi...@waste.org (Xian) wrote: > [snip] > > Mmm...Beastly goodness...though no retainers hurts a little...not *lots*, but > > a little...I keep thinking Beast with a couple of Murder of Crows or Raptors > > would be truly evil...'course it looks like he can't get them by any means > > whatsoever, according to LSJ's page...ah well, I'll have to live without > > that... > > Eh, sure it'd be nice, but come on, he's got a built in rush, and we all > know there are no better actions than rushing for a beatin' machine like > Beast to take. ^_^ Joke! Yeah, Beast is powerful enough as is...I just can't get those evil thoughts out of my head, though...hehe > Well, you know, 'pretty much'. Gwendolyn's only special was that she was > the only POT FOR vamp (I think) till Lazverinus came along... I mean, even > Harrod's special is better than that. (Though not much.) Yah, some ICs > got way excellent specials (cough, Arika, cough) and some just didn't, > but they all got +2 bleed and 4 votes and a bunch of disciplines, and that's > pretty decent. Tell me about Arika...sigh...I think Madpoet is going to screw me pretty good in (thinking)...JOL84 with her... > As for the biggie Toreador, yeah, the old ones paid a lot for their nifty > abilities, especially Anneke and Masika. Francois Villon is real nice > though - he could probably have also been on my list of the good vamps. Francois is over-powered, but he has funky discipline combos that aren't that nasty...I mean, he doesn't have all three physicals, chimerstery & thaumaturgy (note: I *know* he doesn't have tha at all...) Klaus van der Veken is one of my faves...him & Anneke in a cel/tha deck are very cool... > > Hey! No one has mentioned the king of all vampires...Igo! Go Igo! Igo for > > Dictator-for Life! > > Ah yes, Igo. He's so hungry. That's it exactly! Hehehe...Poor little guy...he's so hungry and forgotten. And he's *really* hungry. Xian "You can just ignore it...and let hand jam sort them out." --Jasper Phillips -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- [ quoted text not captured ]

My vote "best vampire" (as it were) would have to be Arika - her special ability generally tends to horribly stunt the growth of your prey (assuming they are master dependent) most everyone wants a hunting ground or location or two.. What discipline is she lacking both prescience and fortitude (that basically rules out most combat), the bleed and the votes (and obfuscate). All in one damned expensive package...... -Chris K Fehlberg wrote: > James Coupe (ve...@nospam.demon.co.uk) wrote: > > : >And Dragos (Tzimisce), who > : >doesn't have to burn blood to play combat cards. Anyone who has played > : >Vicissitude know how deadly this Vampire can get in a round. > [ quoted text not captured ]

Xian wrote: "My current version of Peter's Nos rush deck has all the good little kids plus Watenda & Beast...I can't decide which is better, so I play both & am pleased if either comes out..." Yah, after that debacle at our last tournament, I readjusted my crypt to contain Beast without getting too large: 2 Hasina 2 KoKo 2 Duck 2 Agatha 2 Olivia 1 Nigel 1 Beast It has probably not enough actual Nosferatu to justify having 2 Storm Sewers in the deck, but so far it hasn't done to poorly, Nosferatu wise. Even with 5 pairs, I seem to usually not get doubles anyway (maybe one time in 3 I get a duplicate, and very rarely do I get 2 duplicates). That Beast. He's so good. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <19981119210552...@ng105.aol.com>, pd...@aol.com (PDB6) wrote: > Xian wrote: > "My current version of Peter's Nos rush deck has all the good little kids plus > Watenda & Beast...I can't decide which is better, so I play both & am pleased > if either comes out..." > > Yah, after that debacle at our last tournament, I readjusted my crypt to > contain Beast without getting too large: <unneeded advice to the Nos master> Watenda...Watenda...his seductive form is calling to you...</advice> > 2 Hasina > 2 KoKo I still think Koko is a her...I mean...how many guys do you know named Koko? (Okay...I don't know that many girls named Koko either, but...) > 2 Duck > 2 Agatha > 2 Olivia > 1 Nigel > 1 Beast That's what, 42 total? Hmm...3.5 average, worst 22...pretty nice...I think I included Lupo because he's so cool...gotta love that hair...he's basically another Koko, but not a Nos... > It has probably not enough actual Nosferatu to justify having 2 Storm Sewers in > the deck, but so far it hasn't done to poorly, Nosferatu wise. Even with 5 I think you're okay...4 Nos among the 12...you should almost always get one in your starting draw. And it's nice to have 2 copies of those nifty nifty Storm Sewers... > pairs, I seem to usually not get doubles anyway (maybe one time in 3 I get a > duplicate, and very rarely do I get 2 duplicates). I envy your shuffling skill. Well, except for at that last tournament. I really have to load up if I want something to come up. (i.e. the amount of Raptors in the discard deck...) > That Beast. He's so good. You said it. But he's not better than Igo. What a crafty little guy... Xian, continuing his campaign for Igo-for-supreme-dictator-for-life [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <73388n$1ve$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Xian <xi...@waste.org> wrote: >In article <19981119210552...@ng105.aol.com>, > pd...@aol.com (PDB6) wrote: >> >> Yah, after that debacle at our last tournament, I readjusted my crypt to >> contain Beast without getting too large: > ><unneeded advice to the Nos master> Watenda...Watenda...his seductive form is >calling to you...</advice> Yeessssss.... Give in to the slow combo... ;^F (This is an ascii forked-tongue, of course). Watenda really should have been a Settite. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <733bdn$a1i$1...@news.NERO.NET>, phil...@nd.ENGR.ORST.EDU (Jasper Phillips) wrote: > In article <73388n$1ve$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Xian <xi...@waste.org> wrote: > >In article <19981119210552...@ng105.aol.com>, > > pd...@aol.com (PDB6) wrote: > >> > >> Yah, after that debacle at our last tournament, I readjusted my crypt to > >> contain Beast without getting too large: > > > ><unneeded advice to the Nos master> Watenda...Watenda...his seductive form is > >calling to you...</advice> > > Yeessssss.... Give in to the slow combo... ;^F > (This is an ascii forked-tongue, of course). Wouldn't this be a better one? :^ )-< Hmm...maybe not... > Watenda really should have been a Settite. Nahh...I think his power is quite appropriate for a Malkavian. Though as a Nosferatu...mmm.... Xian...go Igo! He's the man... [ quoted text not captured ]

> > Watenda really should have been a Settite. > Nahh...I think his power is quite appropriate for a Malkavian. > Though as a Nosferatu...mmm.... *nods* I've been bouncing around an idea of a Setite rush combat deck. Get a couple of Mark of Damnation cards on a vampire and go beat up on them with Dedefra or Hadrian Garrick armed with a vial of Garou Blood, Lucky Strikes and Heart of Darkness. Maybe toss in a Pulled Fangs for icing. Noal -- "DISCUSSION, n. A method of confirming others in their errors." -Ambrose Bierce. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <733s53$ig4$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Dhar...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > Watenda really should have been a Settite. > > Nahh...I think his power is quite appropriate for a Malkavian. > > Though as a Nosferatu...mmm.... > > *nods* > I've been bouncing around an idea of a Setite rush combat deck. > Get a couple of Mark of Damnation cards on a vampire and go > beat up on them with Dedefra or Hadrian Garrick armed with a > vial of Garou Blood, Lucky Strikes and Heart of Darkness. > > Maybe toss in a Pulled Fangs for icing. > > Noal > Nice idea. I feel there is mileage in a Setite/Tzimisce combat deck. But it seems to me that it would need untaps, and that Saqqaf is the best vampire for this .. using Freak Drive. The other string to its bow is Grand Temple of Set which you protect with the Guardian Ghoul and Consecration Rites [so you need Meshenka]. Pool gain comes from saqqaf's Serpentis actions and minion taps, fuelled by Taste of Vitae. I've come to this string late so forgive me if someone has said this already, but i personally feel that Lazverinus Thrall of Lambach is the best vampire, in the sense that he can boost all three jyhad strategies - he's an archbishop for the votes, a combat monster [obviously] and he can bleed a bit too. How i wish he had a special disadvantage to reflect his name .. cannot block Lambach and/or Tzimisces, for example. [ quoted text not captured ]

legb...@my-dejanews.com wrote: > Dhar...@yahoo.com wrote: > > *nods* > > I've been bouncing around an idea of a Setite rush combat deck. > > Get a couple of Mark of Damnation cards on a vampire and go > > beat up on them with Dedefra or Hadrian Garrick armed with a > > vial of Garou Blood, Lucky Strikes and Heart of Darkness. > > > > Maybe toss in a Pulled Fangs for icing. > Nice idea. I feel there is mileage in a Setite/Tzimisce combat deck. Yikes. How would that work? They have no disciplines in common. I was thinking a predominantly Obf and Ser deck. I could use Obf for maneuvers, presses, light stealth, and most importantly, Hidden Lurker and Disguised Weapon. > But it seems to me that it would need untaps, and that Saqqaf is the best > vampire for this .. using Freak Drive. I had this kind of concern too but it's tough to get a non-Setite discipline to work in a mostly Setite deck. My best guess to deal with it would be to use mostly small vampires to do the set-up and a fistful of wakes. I think that having my Setites riding the Metro would be a good idea as well. > The other string to its bow is Grand Temple of Set > which you protect with the Guardian Ghoul and Consecration Rites [so you need > Meshenka]. Pool gain comes from saqqaf's Serpentis actions and minion taps, > fuelled by Taste of Vitae. *nods* maybe...but it looks like a stretch to me. Noal -- "DISCUSSION, n. A method of confirming others in their errors." -Ambrose Bierce. -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- [ quoted text not captured ]

Xian wrote: "<unneeded advice to the Nos master> Watenda...Watenda...his seductive form is calling to you...</advice>" Oh, Watenda is _so_ cool. I'm clearly just too much of a wuss to come to terms with this and put him in my deck. But look! I folded under Beast pressure! Perhaps the time of the Watendanator is nigh... "I still think Koko is a her...I mean...how many guys do you know named Koko? (Okay...I don't know that many girls named Koko either, but...)" I'm telling ya'll, KoKo is such a he. Sure, if his name was Coco (like the model/perfume), then sure, but with the K's there, he's just asking to be looked at as a guy. That and well, he, um, well, um, looks, um, like a guy? KoKo is clearly a bit deranged and something of a ferral beast dwelling in the sewers. He is kind of simple minded, so he can be easily manipulated into breaking stuff, as that is what he is best at. I have clearly spent a little too much time thinking about KoKo... "That's what, 42 total? Hmm...3.5 average, worst 22...pretty nice...I think I included Lupo because he's so cool...gotta love that hair...he's basically another Koko, but not a Nos..." Oh yeah, Lupo (the Butcher) is almost as excellent as KoKo. He has great hair, and he has that outrageous accent and penchant for violence. In a deck where you have room for a non Nos, the Lupo/KoKo double team is _so_ the way to go. Sadly, my deck still needs some pure blood Nos for the Storm Sewers, otherwise, Lupo would be so in there. "You said it. But he's not better than Igo. What a crafty little guy..." I guess when you are _that_ hungry, the craftiness just comes to you. [ quoted text not captured ]

Xian wrote: > I still think Koko is a her...I mean...how many guys do you know named Koko? > (Okay...I don't know that many girls named Koko either, but...) I always assumed Koko was a guy - probably because I used to love the game "Mat Mainia" with Coco Savage, an African wrester that liked to bite peoples head. Kevin

Christopher Chew wrote: > > My vote "best vampire" (as it were) would have to be Arika - her special > ability generally tends to horribly stunt the growth of your prey (assuming > they are master dependent) most everyone wants a hunting ground or location > or two.. What discipline is she lacking both prescience and fortitude (that > basically rules out most combat), the bleed and the votes (and obfuscate). > Burn BITCH BURN!!! Kevin PS. I agree. kill my landlord, kill my landlord. Break into his house, make a mess. Take a knife, slit his neck. C-I-L-L, my landlord. - Eddie Murphy, Saturday Night Live.

In article <19981120101416...@ng125.aol.com>, pd...@aol.com (PDB6) wrote: > Xian wrote: > I'm telling ya'll, KoKo is such a he. Sure, if his name was Coco (like the > model/perfume), then sure, but with the K's there, he's just asking to be > looked at as a guy. That and well, he, um, well, um, looks, um, like a guy? > KoKo is clearly a bit deranged and something of a ferral beast dwelling in the > sewers. He is kind of simple minded, so he can be easily manipulated into > breaking stuff, as that is what he is best at. I have clearly spent a little > too much time thinking about KoKo... I always thought the face, though feral had a soft, feminine curve to it. And yes, you are (and so am I) thinking too much about Koko... > "That's what, 42 total? Hmm...3.5 average, worst 22...pretty nice...I think I > included Lupo because he's so cool...gotta love that hair...he's basically > another Koko, but not a Nos..." > > Oh yeah, Lupo (the Butcher) is almost as excellent as KoKo. He has great hair, > and he has that outrageous accent and penchant for violence. In a deck where > you have room for a non Nos, the Lupo/KoKo double team is _so_ the way to go. > Sadly, my deck still needs some pure blood Nos for the Storm Sewers, otherwise, > Lupo would be so in there. Uh-oh...I think we're in a *lot* of trouble, Peter...we are both obviously crazy. Do you pronounce it "LOO-poh" too? With *heavy* stress on the first syllable? But yeah...he rocks...and the hair...can't forget the hair... > "You said it. But he's not better than Igo. What a crafty little guy..." > > I guess when you are _that_ hungry, the craftiness just comes to you. I don't think anyone else understands me on this one... Xian "You can just ignore it...and let hand jam sort them out." --Jasper Phillips -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- [ quoted text not captured ]

Xian wrote: "Uh-oh...I think we're in a *lot* of trouble, Peter...we are both obviously crazy. Do you pronounce it "LOO-poh" too? With *heavy* stress on the first syllable? But yeah...he rocks...and the hair...can't forget the hair..." Heh heh. Nothing better than eastern bloc cartoons. "And now kids, America's _new_ favorite cat and mouse team...Worker and Parasite!" -Krusty T. Clown "I don't think anyone else understands me on this one..." Oh, but they will. Oh yes. They will. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <E8B1A2D1A23BE439.4F5F390C...@library-proxy.airnews.net >, lor...@nospam.nineball.org (Derek S. Ray) wrote: > On Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:07:06 GMT, Daral...@my-dejanews.com wrote: > > > > >Presenting for your pleasure the inimitable Gideon Fontaine [Ventrue 3 PRE] > > > >Swift to field of battle, superior in politics, majestic in the whirling > >melee, sartorially refined & a sneering omen for my oponents. > > and easily Immortal Grappled and pummelled senseless. Or Psyched upon > the first majesty-untap and Sewer-Lidded into torpor. > > -- Derek Whilst true, it doesn't alter the fact that he can be first on the table, often first to the political arena, yet remain fully expendable. I would much prefer that you waste (for we play 4CL) your Psyches and Immortal Grapples on him, rather on someone with more blood to spill. For three blood, he seems a stunning investment in any traditional Ventrue Vote Deck artxerxes [ quoted text not captured ]

> >Whilst true, it doesn't alter the fact that he can be first on the table, >often first to the political arena, yet remain fully expendable. I would >much prefer that you waste (for we play 4CL) your Psyches and Immortal >Grapples on him, rather on someone with more blood to spill. For three blood, >he seems a stunning investment in any traditional Ventrue Vote Deck he's not bad at all, as none of the 3-cap superiors are - in fact all of them are very good. but i certainly wouldn't declare him "best" due to his low capacity (can be killed by an incidental combat deck, as opposed to a 7 or 8 cap who isn't going to die right off to anything but a -good- combat deck) and lack of an inherent title, ...and in an artificially enhanced 4CL environment he's much worse off since you don't want to waste 1 of your 4 precious Majesties defending him, but he IS nice to keep around. [ quoted text not captured ]

the Prince of Paris.. I've never lost a game with him out. Sic' em on somebody and just steal 2 blood since a Vampire can' normally' only take 1 when hunting; impossible to catch as he is almost always tapped doing this which ends any rushes or haven attacks. He's destroyed most of my enemies for me. Works awesome for combat happy people. (not to mention being a prince.. and having a little card that helps with other Tors)

In article <19981123015802...@ng141.aol.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] Oh course, against a truly combat happy deck, the prince (who is 10 capacity I think?) will be in torpor before he ever takes an action... 10 capacity vampires with essentialy no combat defense are pretty dubious in my book (hell, 1 more capacity and you have Alexandra, who is so much better). The only decks I've seen do well with large vampires use ventrue based 5th tradition/minion tap, since they have the fortitude to minimize their risk. [ quoted text not captured ]

RYOGAtheH wrote: > [...] > impossible to catch as he is almost always tapped doing this which ends any > rushes or haven attacks. Being tapped doesn't protect a minion from Bum's Rush or Haven Uncovered attacks. -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html

ryog...@aol.com (RYOGAtheH) wrote: > the Prince of Paris.. I've never lost a game with him out. Sic' em on somebody > and just steal 2 blood since a Vampire can' normally' only take 1 when hunting; > impossible to catch as he is almost always tapped doing this which ends any > rushes or haven attacks. Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis? Being tapped does not prevent people from attacking the vampire. In fact, Ambush is a card that specifically attacks tapped vampires. Where the hell did this idea about tapped vampires being safe against rush combat come from? That's twice this weekend. Did someone let the Magic: The Crack Habit weenies in? Noal McDonald Niktuku of Westland, MI -- "DISCUSSION, n. A method of confirming others in their errors." -Ambrose Bierce. -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- [ quoted text not captured ]

I must say that the Brujah Anvil is the best vampire for the blood. 6 capacity, 2 inclan Sup. basic Pres, Thaum, and Dominate he's also a Primogen. I always feel good when he hits the table early game. :-) -- Jake Rush "But my dreams 9710-069 They aren't as empty ACST As my conscience seems to be" -The Who, Behind Blue Eyes Tampa Bay by Night http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/3354/

>Harrod? Are you kidding? And though her special is cool, Alexandra isn't >that exciting, either. (Does anyone else feel that the big Toreador are >under-disciplined? Okay...they have groovy specials, but I'd trade a few of >those for a better discipline spread...I mean, they're all AUS PRE CEL with >maybe dom) Although I agree that Harrod is probably not one of the better IC members, I totally disagree with you on Alexandra. She is one of my star vamps in my reactive Toreador gun deck. I use her, Masika for his special ability, Anson for his (I am master-heavy) and Anneke for her special also. With ALexandra, I can get a free action from any of my other Toreador. With Alexandra and Masika, I can get two free actions (my deck is a blood machine, so the capacity is rarely a problem for me). AUS PRE and CEL give these high-power Toreador a wealth of options. They can vote well (with many titles and a lot of superior presence), bleed extremely well with presence (and Anneke and Masika and Alexandra all have bonus-bleed built-in), and with their superior celerity and some .44 Magnums (and I also use Vast Wealth), I can gun people down in a heartbeat. I only have to use my celerity. My deck uses Smiling Jack the Anarch, a lot of Second Traditions and Wakes and the guns to destroy enemy leeches (my name for vamps) in combat. I also use Anarch Revolt and Antediluvian Awakening with the blood machine I have (Art Museum, Tomb of Ramses, Blood Dolls, Minion Taps) to keep me going and with the exception of a handful of Kallistas and Felicia Mostroms, every vamp of mine has titles to have a say in the vote. A lot of the "higher up" TOreador have Dominate or Protean, which gives you some other options, but I am VERY happy with AUS, CEL and PRE . . . the only thing they DON'T seem to have is stealth, and that is what Toreador Grand Ball is for *s*. Myron Mychal

In article <73sk19$l6c$1...@Nntp1.mcs.net>, "Moosie" <lion...@mcs.net> wrote: > >Harrod? Are you kidding? And though her special is cool, Alexandra isn't > >that exciting, either. (Does anyone else feel that the big Toreador are > >under-disciplined? Okay...they have groovy specials, but I'd trade a few > of > >those for a better discipline spread...I mean, they're all AUS PRE CEL with > >maybe dom) > > Although I agree that Harrod is probably not one of the better IC members, I > totally disagree with you on Alexandra. She is one of my star vamps in my > reactive Toreador gun deck. I use her, Masika for his special ability, > Anson for his (I am master-heavy) and Anneke for her special also. With > ALexandra, I can get a free action from any of my other Toreador. With > Alexandra and Masika, I can get two free actions (my deck is a blood > machine, so the capacity is rarely a problem for me). [snip description] Crazy...would you be willing to post the deck? I can never fit all of that in...especially the blood gain if I'm going to be doing the rest... Xian "they look at you funny when you attack things like a hungry mountain lion on crack" --greensea [ quoted text not captured ]

Agreed. Alexandra is one of the coolest IC members. Yeah big Toreador cost heaps but aren't they fun? Anneke is fantastic so is Francois and my favourite Klaus Van de Veken (actually he sucks I like the picture :-)). Discipline wise Best value - probably Marlene the Infernalist, Ian Forestal or Mr Dunn Then again the special abilities of Leadro or Arika, Charlotte Giovanni Here is hoping for a redone set with Vamps out of the WW WOD other than the obvious ones already - I mean Marcus Vitel - Lasombra Prince of DC starting with Clan Impersonation, Ventrue - kewl! [ quoted text not captured ]

On Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:27:44 GMT, xi...@waste.org (Xian) wrote: >In article <7307lf$gt2$1...@news.NERO.NET>, [snippage] >> I don't know, I've always been partial to Watenda... > >What? How can you pass up that charming smile? Igo rules! And he has >Smudge's missing discipline! What a conniving bastard! Gotta love him... Based on pure artwork alone...Smudge is the man! Damn capacity, to hell with discipline(s), screw clan affiliation. That sexy sneer, those magnetic eyes, the languorous way he's wiping the blood from his mouth...THAT'S a picture... I love the Smudge card so much, I carry a copy around in my wallet just to look at from time to time. Hey...it's better than the pictures I find in my male friends' wallets! Gwen Morse -- Gwen Morse // mailto:goldmoon%40geocities.com http://www.hatrack.net/gwen/celtic/index.html Eachna dalta Aonghus (5th Century Irish Celt) Roleplayer, re-enactor, and collector of CCG's

> Based on pure artwork alone...Smudge is the man! Damn capacity, to > hell with discipline(s), screw clan affiliation. That sexy sneer, > those magnetic eyes, the languorous way he's wiping the blood from his > mouth...THAT'S a picture... > > I love the Smudge card so much, I carry a copy around in my wallet > just to look at from time to time. Hey...it's better than the pictures > I find in my male friends' wallets! > > Gwen Morse I'll bet most guys would prefer Tura Vaughn... My fave is Lupo. He's just so "Gives-a-damn." He and Democritus are the coolest pics in my opinion. They *must* be related somehow... ;-) -- Jake Rush "But my dreams [ quoted text not captured ]

> Based on pure artwork alone...Smudge is the man! Damn capacity, to > hell with discipline(s), screw clan affiliation. That sexy sneer, > those magnetic eyes, the languorous way he's wiping the blood from his > mouth...THAT'S a picture... IMO, Aurora van Brande is the most amazingly drawn vampire. I can just stare at that picture forever. She has the most incredibly alluring eyes that stand out and just seem to stare right into you... and the blood all over her mouth and face says she just doesn't fuck around. The pic is just soooo sexy. a0 [ quoted text not captured ]

Bryan Nelson <bry...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > Who do you think is the single most powerful vampire in the game? In >our group, Carlotta and Dragos are vamps that cause people to grown when >they come out. Carlotta with her ability to- at +1 stealth- trade a card >from your hand for one in your ash heap. And Dragos (Tzimisce), who >doesn't have to burn blood to play combat cards. Anyone who has played >Vicissitude know how deadly this Vampire can get in a round. > If one vampire doesn't stand out to you as one better than the rest, >then maybe tell us your favorite on the basis of card art or something >like that. > well... of course, you HAVE to respect Anvil... he is the original Bad-Ass vamp... I think he's gonna have to qualify as my all-time favorite, although Laz is pretty much a monster, too... there's got to be a deck just DYING to be designed around him, but I've only got 2 copies of him.... we'll have to see. As far as artwork goes, there's no question that Al-Ashrad has the coolest picture. Hands down, he wins... Bill Pyle (wp...@mindspring.com)