[LSJ] Prisci Subreferendum

Last night, a player tapped Demonstration to cancel the votes of a Priscus. "Tap to cancel the votes of any vampire during the referendum of a political action." Some confusion ensued, since there is some perceived ambiguity about the Prisci Subreferendum. Some players thought that the Prisci Subreferendum votes may only be affected explicitly, since we remembered rulings as such. But in the end, the majority ruling was that Demonstration *can* affect a Priscus's votes. I found confirmation of this from 2001. Assuming nothing has changed, Demonstration can cancel the votes of a Priscus: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/5ab156b8b0b5640f Can we please have a *definitive* ruling on what affects Prisci votes and what does not? As far as I can tell, it all boils down to these 3 general rules: 1) Effects which "cancel" a vampire's votes in a referendum may cancel the votes of a vampire in the Prisci Subreferendum (i.e. Demonstration). 2) Multipliers affect the votes of a vampire in the Prisci Subreferendum (i.e. if I control Orlando Oriundus and Shawnda Dorritt, Shawnda will have 2 votes in the Prisci Subreferendum). 3) Effects which numerically alter a vampire's votes ("gain 2 votes", "get -1 vote", etc) do NOT affect Priscus votes, except where explicitly stated (i.e. Free States Rant affects them due to card text, but Rastacourere and Condemnation Mute do not). Can you please confirm/deny/expand upon these points, so there is a specific rule that can be referenced? Thanks.

Jozxyqk wrote: > Last night, a player tapped Demonstration to cancel the votes of a Priscus. > > "Tap to cancel the votes of any vampire during the referendum of a political > action." > > Some confusion ensued, since there is some perceived ambiguity about the > Prisci Subreferendum. Some players thought that the Prisci Subreferendum > votes may only be affected explicitly, since we remembered rulings as such. > But in the end, the majority ruling was that Demonstration *can* affect a > Priscus's votes. > > I found confirmation of this from 2001. Assuming nothing has changed, > Demonstration can cancel the votes of a Priscus: > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/5ab156b8b0b5640f Correct. > Can we please have a *definitive* ruling on what affects Prisci votes and > what does not? Sure. > As far as I can tell, it all boils down to these 3 general rules: > > 1) Effects which "cancel" a vampire's votes in a referendum may cancel the > votes of a vampire in the Prisci Subreferendum (i.e. Demonstration). Yes, setting the vampire's disposition affects both his main- and sub- referendum votes, by the rule that all votes from a single source must be cast in agreement. (That is, each source can be viewed as having an "aligment": for, against, or neutral. All votes from the source are cast (or withheld) according to that alignment.) > 2) Multipliers affect the votes of a vampire in the Prisci Subreferendum > (i.e. if I control Orlando Oriundus and Shawnda Dorritt, Shawnda will have > 2 votes in the Prisci Subreferendum). No. Multipliers and all other effects which manipulate the number of votes only affect the votes they say they do. (With "vote" meaning "vote in the main referendum", as per the standard rule.) > 3) Effects which numerically alter a vampire's votes ("gain 2 votes", > "get -1 vote", etc) do NOT affect Priscus votes, except where explicitly > stated (i.e. Free States Rant affects them due to card text, but Rastacourere > and Condemnation Mute do not). Correct. This rule applies as written to multipliers (which numerically alter a vampire's votes). > Can you please confirm/deny/expand upon these points, so there is a specific > rule that can be referenced? Sure, but this just reiterates the specific rule pair that can be referenced as it has been given before. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/f5f3092799ed765c And, to reinforce #3's jurisdiction over multipliers: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/c5033b7ff2a9c261

How does Political Struggle affect a Priscus? Can the Vampire playing Political Struggle on a Priscus member get 1 vote in the Prisci Sub- ref or no vote at all?

[ quoted text not captured ] Zero votes, the number of main-referendum votes the Priscus has.