rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Ritual of the Bitter Rose question

6 messages from 5 participants · 14 April 1995 – 21 April 1995
original thread on Google Groups

Christopher Kelly

Maybe this has been asked before, but on the card Ritual of the Bitter Rose it says : "All your ready vampires gain the amount of blood from the blood bank that is on a vampire you are destroying by diablerie. Usable in combat if an enemy is burned. Bloodhunt may only be called on the vampire who commited the diablerie." My question relates to the second sentance. How can a vampire have any blood on it if it is being burned in combat? The way to burn a vampire is to do aggravated damage when the target has no blood. I can see that you can commit diablerie in comat via Amaranth, but this is not burning. Any thoughts? -- An optimist says the glass is half full. A pessimist says the glass is half empty. I say there's just too much ice in the darn thing...

Joseph Cochran

In article <D71Aw...@freenet.carleton.ca>, Christopher Kelly <aj...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote: >is on a vampire you are destroying by diablerie. Usable in combat if an >enemy is burned. Bloodhunt may only be called on the vampire who commited > >My question relates to the second sentance. How can a vampire have any >blood on it if it is being burned in combat? The way to burn a vampire is >to do aggravated damage when the target has no blood. I can see that you >can commit diablerie in comat via Amaranth, but this is not burning. If a vampire commits diablerie, it's burning another vampire. Since Amaranth allows diablerie, by extension it's allowing burning. So really, Amaranth is burning. And as you correctly note, unless Amaranth is the method by which an enemy is burned in combat, the Ritual isn't really worth much. | If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--* | PC game, call the announce line at | js...@vt.edu | ** csi...@discus.ise.vt.edu ** | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------- "Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK

Romu Sebastian J B

Joseph Cochran (js...@discus.ise.vt.edu) scribbles: :Christopher Kelly <aj...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote: :>My question relates to the second sentance. How can a vampire have any :>blood on it if it is being burned in combat? The way to burn a vampire is :>to do aggravated damage when the target has no blood. I can see that you :>can commit diablerie in comat via Amaranth, but this is not burning. Actually, if one receives more aggrataved damage than their blood+1, then they are burnt. By this token, someone being hit for 4pts of aggravated with only 2 blood is burnt, with the two blood on them. And in our circle, the ritual could be played... giving the victor's vampires +2 blood each. : If a vampire commits diablerie, it's burning another vampire. :Since Amaranth allows diablerie, by extension it's allowing burning. So :really, Amaranth is burning. And as you correctly note, unless Amaranth :is the method by which an enemy is burned in combat, the Ritual isn't :really worth much. See above. It's all a matter of how one interprets healing damage, and I do beleive the rules read in favour of the above interpretation. Seb.

Joseph Cochran

In article <3n5r9q$5...@knot.queensu.ca>, Romu Sebastian J B <3s...@qlink.queensu.ca> wrote: >Joseph Cochran (js...@discus.ise.vt.edu) scribbles: >:Christopher Kelly <aj...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote: >:>My question relates to the second sentance. How can a vampire have any >:>blood on it if it is being burned in combat? The way to burn a vampire is >:>to do aggravated damage when the target has no blood. I can see that you >:>can commit diablerie in comat via Amaranth, but this is not burning. > >Actually, if one receives more aggrataved damage than their blood+1, then >they are burnt. By this token, someone being hit for 4pts of aggravated >with only 2 blood is burnt, with the two blood on them. And in our >circle, the ritual could be played... giving the victor's vampires +2 >blood each. Each point of damage a vampire receives is separately handled, and is prevented, healed or flagged as a torpor blow, as appropriate. The acutal burn point is X+2, not X+1 (where X is the amount of blood on a vampire). In your example, the first point flags the vampire for torpor. The second and third are each healed. The fourth burns the vampire. By the time the vampire is burned, there is no blood left on her, as she has used the other points to heal the damage done to her. If diablerie is committed and the Ritual of the Bitter Rose is played at that time, then your vampires will gain no blood. [ quoted text not captured ]

Alan Kwan

In article <3n5r9q$5...@knot.queensu.ca> 3s...@qlink.queensu.ca (Romu Sebastian J B) writes: >Actually, if one receives more aggrataved damage than their blood+1, then >they are burnt. By this token, someone being hit for 4pts of aggravated >with only 2 blood is burnt, with the two blood on them. And in our >circle, the ritual could be played... giving the victor's vampires +2 >blood each. [Unofficial interpretation ensues:] IMO, this is a problem with an error in the wording of RotBR. The card should say "Diabolorized in combat", not "burned in combat". RotBR should not be playable when a vampire is burned by aggravated damage. RotBR is a very powerful card. Restricting its playing conditions appropriately is a very good way to balance it. Diabolorization is a much tighter condition than just "burn", because the former is usually subject to a bloodhunt. Scott, please add this to your house rules list, if you read it. -- "Live Life with Heart." Alan Kwan kw...@cs.cornell.edu

L. Scott Johnson

kw...@cs.cornell.edu (Alan Kwan) writes: >In article <3n5r9q$5...@knot.queensu.ca> 3s...@qlink.queensu.ca (Romu Sebastian J B) writes: >>Actually, if one receives more aggrataved damage than their blood+1, then >>they are burnt. By this token, someone being hit for 4pts of aggravated >>with only 2 blood is burnt, with the two blood on them. And in our >>circle, the ritual could be played... giving the victor's vampires +2 >>blood each. Personal Opinion: Actually, he should be burnt with no blood. Same as taking X blood from a gun, +2 agg from DBR. You have to lose the blood first. p.32 "In this case [more than one agg. received], the excess *is paid* in blood." The blood is always paid. If it is not sufficient, the vampire is burned. >[Unofficial interpretation ensues:] >IMO, this is a problem with an error in the wording of RotBR. >The card should say "Diabolorized in combat", not "burned in >combat". RotBR should not be playable when a vampire is burned >by aggravated damage. RotBR would be useless to play when a vampire is burned from agg., since everyone would get zero blood. >RotBR is a very powerful card. Restricting its playing conditions >appropriately is a very good way to balance it. Diabolorization >is a much tighter condition than just "burn", because the former >is usually subject to a bloodhunt. >Scott, please add this to your house rules list, if you read it. OK, but you realize that I don't think it changes much - except not being able to cycle the card. I'm for it, but only because it changes nothing in my view. ----- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu) Graphics Specialist and Jyhad Rules' Monger.