The hidden lurker card appears to be misprinted with
an action symbol instead of an action modifier
symbol.
1) It says "This vampire is tapped"
If it were an action, it would not need this.
2) It does not describe the action as a (D) action,
It would be if it were, in fact, an action.
3) It speaks as if the combat is assured, when it can be
blocked trivially. It should say "This vampire
attempts to enter combat with the blocking minion.
... If succesful, the first round of combat, the
blocking minion mannot use any strikes."
Since it doesn't, any other vampire (of your predator
or prey, since it cannot be blocked by anyone else)
who blocks cannot use a strike the first round. ?!?
Obviously, combat should be automatic, as in an action
modifier.
4) This card is a mirror image of Fast Reaction (au), excpet
that fast reaction's combat is automatic, and Hidden
Lurker can be blocked trivially. Probably intended to
be automatic like the Fast Reaction.
As it stands (an action), try this scenario:
I'm player A, my prey is B, his prey is C, and his prey
(my predator) is D.
My turn.
I use V1 to burn C's Ventrue Headquarters with an Arson card.
C Blocks with V-2. Combat ensues.
After combat, I use V3 to enter combat with V-2 with Hidden
Lurker.
At this point, only my prey or predator can block - not C!
Since it is not a (D) action.
B is feeling generous, and blocks with V-4.
V3 is blocked, and combat occurs between V3 and V-4.
First round: I choose my strike: (playing Torn Signpost first)
Lucky Blow - total 4 hand damage.
His strike: none. (He can't choose a strike, as per Hidden Lurker.)
Combat ends.
This is not the way things are supposed to work.
Tom? Forward to the Design Team, maybe?
L. Scott Johnson
In article <3f3sih$1...@redwood.cs.scarolina.edu>,
sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) wrote:
> The hidden lurker card appears to be misprinted with
> an action symbol instead of an action modifier
> symbol.
>
Your arguments are good, but I could have sworn that Tom ruled on this
recently and said that it *was* an action card.
> 1) It says "This vampire is tapped"
> If it were an action, it would not need this.
>
> 2) It does not describe the action as a (D) action,
> It would be if it were, in fact, an action.
>
> 3) It speaks as if the combat is assured, when it can be
> blocked trivially. It should say "This vampire
> attempts to enter combat with the blocking minion.
> ... If succesful, the first round of combat, the
> blocking minion mannot use any strikes."
>
> Since it doesn't, any other vampire (of your predator
> or prey, since it cannot be blocked by anyone else)
> who blocks cannot use a strike the first round. ?!?
>
No. A blocked action means *no results* from the action card. Only if the
action is unblocked do you get the listed results. Same with Bum's Rush,
etc.
> Obviously, combat should be automatic, as in an action
> modifier.
>
I agree, but it isn't. Compare to Fast Reaction. This is a Reaction card
and it *does* guarantee that you get into combat. Also, Psyche does too,
but it is a combat card and you use the same vampire.
> 4) This card is a mirror image of Fast Reaction (au), excpet
> that fast reaction's combat is automatic, and Hidden
> Lurker can be blocked trivially. Probably intended to
> be automatic like the Fast Reaction.
>
Other than the obvious difference that Hidden Lurker if for offense and
Fast Reaction is for defense.
--
Dale Hurtt
dhu...@harris.com
In article <3f6gn2$p...@hpchase.rose.hp.com>, je...@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Jeff
Dunham) wrote:
> : 2) It does not describe the action as a (D) action,> : It would be if it were, in fact, an action.
>> It is a directed action, but with special circumstances -- new vampire starts
> action before combatting vampire's turn ends.
>
Ummm. No it is not a directed action. If you do not see the (D), then it is
not directed.
> : 3) It speaks as if the combat is assured, when it can be> : blocked trivially. It should say "This vampire
> : attempts to enter combat with the blocking minion.
> : ... If succesful, the first round of combat, the
> : blocking minion mannot use any strikes."
>> Why shouldn't combat be assured? The intent of the card is to continue
> combat to thrash on the blocking vampire.
Unfortunately, the intent of the card and how it is ruled as being played
are two different things (which is what the poster originally complained
about).
As it is an action, as opposed to a combat card (such as Psyche) or a
post-action action modifier (such as Cryptic Rider) or a post-combat
reaction card (such as Fast Reaction), it is blockable LIKE ALL ACTIONS
ARE. In fact, as it is not marked as a (D) action, your predator can stop
the fun.
--
Dale Hurtt
dhu...@harris.com
In article <3f6gn2$p...@hpchase.rose.hp.com> je...@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Jeff Dunham) writes:
>L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu) wrote:
>: The hidden lurker card appears to be misprinted with>: an action symbol instead of an action modifier
>: symbol.
>>Not according to the last card errata I saw.
>
I bought some cards, and got hidden lurker. I looked at the
card, and before playing the first game, decided that this
card is one of those which needs an errata. Where is Tom?
Alan.
--
"Live Life with Heart."
Alan Kwan kw...@cs.cornell.edu
I talked to the person who heads up keeping track of Jyhad rulings, and
we're pretty sure that Hidden Lurker should be an action modifier. We're
going to check with Jyhad's design team on whether we want to issue
errata or just fix it in future printings, but we probably want to
issue errata.
Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
In article <3fsp88$6...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>,
Thomas R Wylie <aa...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:
>
>I talked to the person who heads up keeping track of Jyhad rulings, and
>we're pretty sure that Hidden Lurker should be an action modifier. We're
>going to check with Jyhad's design team on whether we want to issue
>errata or just fix it in future printings, but we probably want to
>issue errata.
if it is an action modifier, what takes place first, fast reactions or hidden
lurker?
or does the hidden lurker attack the vamp with fast reactions?
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Eh? Why? Do both!
If you don't issue errata, the current Hidden Lurker cards
(which are action) will have no play value when compared
to the fixed-up version.
On the other hand, I'll also like to see bugs like this corrected
in future printings.
Why leave bugs in a game? Fix all the bugs in Jyhad!
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