"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3E53DEE3...@white-wolf.com...
> LSJ wrote:
> > REVERSAL:
> >
> > But it's not, as was established for Malkavian Dementia.
> > Instead, you have control until the end (as you note).
> > After the end, you don't have control.
> >
> > Since the DtD damage occurs "after the end", it occurs
> > when you no longer have a choice.
> >
> > Freak Drive, however, is played during the action, after the
> > resolution. Since it is still during the action, you still have
> > control.
>
> Sorry for the whiplash, but a very observant Stone has pointed
> out that there's also a ruling that says the damage done is done
> after resolution but still during the action (it isn't relegated
> to the "between action" timing area).
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3BE5446A.46D87B60%40white-wolf.com
>
> The torporizing effect of Day Operation as well as the damaging
> effects of Force of Will and Daring the Dawn occur during the
> action, after resolution, before the action ends.
These cards aren't all written the same.
Force of Will (which the above ruling is on): "Damage occurs after
the action or combat is resolved."
Day Operation: "The acting vampire goes to torpor when the action
is resolved."
Daring the Dawn: "This vampire takes 2 aggravated damage (not
preventable) after the action is complete."
Spirit Marionette: "Take control of any ready untapped minion
until the end of the next action."
Now, I'm just thinking in English here, but "after the action is
complete" sounds to me like it would come after "the end of the
next action".
Since things aren't complete until they're over (Daring the Dawn
doesn't say "when the action is resolved" which we know happens
somewhat before an action is declared "over"), I still think it
would make sense for DtD to apply its damage after control from
Spirit Marionette ends.
> Freak Drive can be played before or after any of those effects,
> since it occupies the same timing window.
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9hpqcd%2438m%241%40taliesin.netcom.net.uk
>
> Note that playing Freak Drive after would not be possible if the
> effect waited until after the end of the action to occur.
You can certainly play Freak Drive after applying the torporizing
effects of Force of Will or Day Operation, based on prior precedent,
but I don't think you should be able to after going to torpor for
Daring the Dawn. I would argue that the citation above just didn't
take into account that Daring the Dawn wouldn't have put you in
torpor yet by the time you would play Freak Drive, and is therefore
basically irrelevant to the question (unlike Force of Will and
combat, the other two examples).
These cards could be "cleaned up" by making their wording all fit
the same template, but currently they are using different phrasing.
Josh
no, it's really not just that my ox is being gored, i didn't
particularly intend to ever play that deck again...