rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

A question on blocking a vote.

12 messages from 7 participants · 31 January 1998 – 05 February 1998
original thread on Google Groups

Shade

If a minion has the intercept to do so, at what point in time do they have to announce and commit to blocking a vote being cast? When the player says "I'm having Smudge call a vote", or when they say "The vote he's calling is Consanguinous Boon.", or when they start to read the card text, or when they announce who the card will be affecting? What exactly is ment by "A political action is blocked like any other action, but the action must be blocked before the player calling the vote announces all the terms of the vote"?

David Green

[ quoted text not captured ] Basically the order is: Acting minion plays a political action card and taps, declaring the action (ie Consanguinous Boon). Then any and all block attempts are made, as for any normal action, with stealth, intercept, etc. Once all minions have failed or declined to block, then the acting methuselah must set the terms of the vote (ie choose a clan for Consanguinous Boon). Votes are cast and tallied, and then the results are applied (ie, gain one pool for each minion of the declared clan). Make sense? -Dave

Lupus Australis

On Sat, 31 Jan 1998, Shade wrote: > If a minion has the intercept to do so, at what point in time do they > have to announce and commit to blocking a vote being cast? When the card is played. It is similar to any other carded action in this respect. > When the > player says "I'm having Smudge call a vote", No, because there is no such action as "calling a vote". You must produce the political action card you are playing. > or when they say "The vote > he's calling is Consanguinous Boon." The title is generally announced when the card is played. > , or when they start to read the > card text, When the card is played, anyone who wishes to do so may read card text before deciding to block. > or when they announce who the card will be affecting? No, this occurs only after it is determined that the action has not been blocked. Terms are then announced (ie. you declare which clan Consanguinous Boon will affect), and actual voting then proceeds. > What > exactly is ment by "A political action is blocked like any other action, > but the action must be blocked before the player calling the vote > announces all the terms of the vote"? Umm, well, I suppose that, actually, if the vote is blocked then combat happens and no terms are declared at all. But what the above apparently "means" is that the terms are declared only after one has been successful in calling the vote (which is not the same thing as saying that the vote has successfully passed). A political action is successfully "called" if no-one blocks it; terms are then announced. "Terms" does not mean card text. All players are entitled to card text information as soon as card is played. Terms include such things as: the name of the clan that will benefit from Consanguinous Boon; the name of the ready Nosferatu that will gain a title from Nosferatu Justicar; how pool loss will be divided from KRC, etc. Lupus Australis ____ ____ \ \----/ / |()__()| __\ __ /__ / __\()/__ \ |/ \==/ \| | || |

Bruce Smith

Actually, unless I've missed yet more changes a political action starts by announcing that a vampire is calling a vote. The second step, if the action is not blocked, is to announce the card and any options. Not to mention the fact that any vampire can call a vote without a vote card if there is a card in play that can be voted down by this action. This is also the same with equipment. You only need to announce that you are equiping but not what it is. Bruce [ quoted text not captured ]

R. David Zopf

Bruce Smith <pala...@home.com> wrote: >Actually, unless I've missed yet more changes a political action starts by >announcing that a vampire is calling a vote. The second step, if the action >is not blocked, is to announce the card and any options. Not to mention the >fact that any vampire can call a vote without a vote card if there is a card >in play that can be voted down by this action. >This is also the same with equipment. You only need to announce that you are >equiping but not what it is. >Bruce Sadly, Bruce, this is not the case... Whenever a card is to be played in V:tES, it is revealed immediately. This means that equipment, vote, and action cards are shown at the time that the action is announced, and before any blocking attempts are made... Regards, R. David Zopf guenh...@mindspring.com Atom Weaver....

Bruce Smith

That's not in the rules that I have. The sequence is explicitly called out. I also haven't seen a clarification for this either. Pg. 25 in V:tES only specifies that you must say you are calling a vote. This is the action. Bruce [ quoted text not captured ]

Lupus Australis

On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, Bruce Smith wrote: > That's not in the rules that I have. The sequence is explicitly called out. I > also haven't seen a clarification for this either. Pg. 25 in V:tES only specifies > that you must say you are calling a vote. This is the action. "Calling a vote" is an action *type*. Actions of this type all *require* a political action card (as I am sure your rulebook makes clear). V:tES rules do not normally work on faith. The Methuselah who wishes his minion to take a carded action must immediately produce the card that allows him to do this. IOW, he must play the card. In V:tES all cards are played face up, so that anyone can read what they say the moment they are played. One may not, for instance, say "I am calling a vote--trust me, I have a PA card" while hoping that one will come up after playing a few action modifiers. Likewise, if one has 2 PA cards in one's hand, one may not wait to decide which to play until after finding out if it is blocked. Relevant rulings (from the 1/7/98 listing) are: * All cards are shown when played, incl. equipment, strikes, and political actions.[RTR] * The card used for an action is shown when the action is announced (for equipping, recruiting, employing, calling a vote, etc.)[RTR] > R. David Zopf wrote: > > > Bruce Smith <pala...@home.com> wrote: > > > > >Actually, unless I've missed yet more changes a political action starts by > > >announcing that a vampire is calling a vote. The second step, if the action > > >is not blocked, is to announce the card and any options. Not to mention the > > >fact that any vampire can call a vote without a vote card if there is a card > > >in play that can be voted down by this action. > > > > >This is also the same with equipment. You only need to announce that you are > > >equiping but not what it is. > > > > >Bruce > > > > Sadly, Bruce, this is not the case... Whenever a card is to be played > > in V:tES, it is revealed immediately. This means that equipment, > > vote, and action cards are shown at the time that the action is > > announced, and before any blocking attempts are made... Lupus Australis [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ

[ quoted text not captured ] Correct on all counts. Thanks for saving me some typing. -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. (*) - Subject to review by Rules Team

LSJ

Bruce Smith wrote: > > That's not in the rules that I have. The sequence is explicitly called out. I > also haven't seen a clarification for this either. Pg. 25 in V:tES only specifies > that you must say you are calling a vote. This is the action. > > Bruce > > R. David Zopf wrote: > > > Bruce Smith <pala...@home.com> wrote: > > > > >Actually, unless I've missed yet more changes a political action starts by > > >announcing that a vampire is calling a vote. The second step, if the action > > >is not blocked, is to announce the card and any options. Not to mention the > > >fact that any vampire can call a vote without a vote card if there is a card > > >in play that can be voted down by this action. > > > > >This is also the same with equipment. You only need to announce that you are > > >equiping but not what it is. > > > > >Bruce > > > > Sadly, Bruce, this is not the case... Whenever a card is to be played > > in V:tES, it is revealed immediately. This means that equipment, > > vote, and action cards are shown at the time that the action is > > announced, and before any blocking attempts are made... Political Action cards (and equipment cards, retainers, allies, etc.) are played (shown to all players) when the action is announced: 3.2.2. Minion Cards Political cards: These are action cards that represent the political intrigue inherent in vampire society. Vampires may use these to cause events in the game that may benefit or harm Methuselahs or their minions. A "voting action" occurs when a vampire "calls" a vote by playing this type of card. (This is described under Vampire Politics in Section 7). 7.Vampire Politics To play a political card 1) Tap a vampire and announce that she is calling a vote. Any political cards called at +1 stealth (or +X stealth) are unblockable in the Basic Game. [ quoted text not captured ]

Bruce Smith

Thanks all for the information. The group I play with just recently had a "revelation" that you must play your action cards face down. (previously, we played them the correct way. For about 2 years!) It makes sense but it is not explicity stated that they must be played face up. When your in an argument, no-one takes reasonable assumptions. :) Cheers, Bruce [ quoted text not captured ]

bryan nelson

Rules or not, the way we like to play political actions is: A player announces a minion would like to call a vote. They then take a political action card from their hand and place it face down by the minion calling the vote. Only before the terms of the vote are announced is the time we allow for blocking the action. This creates a aura of mystery to the potential blocking Methuselahs- should they block thinking the vote will be one not of their favor or, should they let it go hoping it will benefit them in some way ( blood to them or problems for their predator or prey). If they let it go and it is a vote that hurts them, they still have a chance to vote it down. We find this way just makes things a little bit more interesting ( there is usually 4 of us playing). We use the same rule for equipping minions and recruiting allies and retainers. It may not be the way the rules read, but we think the games arre more entertaining and requiring much more thought about blocking and announcing actions. Other actions are played regularly. Shade wrote: > If a minion has the intercept to do so, at what point in time do they > have to announce and commit to blocking a vote being cast? When the > player says "I'm having Smudge call a vote", or when they say "The vote > he's calling is Consanguinous Boon.", or when they start to read the > card text, or when they announce who the card will be affecting? What [ quoted text not captured ]

R. David Zopf

bryan nelson <bry...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >Rules or not, >balance snipped Enough said. End of thread ;-) [ quoted text not captured ]