Directed actions and bleeds..

A question for you all, as it came up in play a few days ago. A directed action can be "directed" at any methuselah (Arson at any meths properties, bums rush at any meths vamps, etc etc), unless otherwise stated on the card, correct? A directed bleed (i.e. computer hacking), with the (D) symbol before the action text.. Can this be directed at any methuselah??? Some players were saying no it couldn't that only Night Moves and one other "directed" bleed (can't remember what they said the other bleed card was) could be sent towards any methuselah, and that bleeds were now implied to ALWAYS go towards your prey.. Is this true? I've looked all over the rules online and the errata for cards like C.H., as well as errata for bleeding in general, but found no mention of anything like this... And since I was looking at the new Sabbat War version of Computer hacking it has (D) bleed text, just like the old card; and if you can't direct a bleed via C.H. at another methuselah (as ALL bleeds are implied to be towards your prey), then why have the (D) on there at all? Better to only have the (D) symbol there for cards that can bleed other targets.. However this only applies "if" you can't direct bleeds like computer hacking at other methuselahs.. Any help/opinion on this would be great.. Adam Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

In article <8tkk5j$3js$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, aley...@my-deja.com wrote: > A question for you all, as it came up in play a few days ago. An answer for you, as it was posted a few days ago (10.05.2000). > A directed action can be "directed" at any methuselah (Arson at any > meths properties, bums rush at any meths vamps, etc etc), unless > otherwise stated on the card, correct? No. The (D) symbol is only reminder text about "who can block". The (D) symbol only redundantly indicates who can block (only the controller of the target, or the methuselah tragetted). The symbol does *not* address who the action can be directed at - the rest of the text on the card should make that clear. See Page 28 of the Sabbat War Rulebook. 6.2.2.1 > A directed bleed (i.e. computer hacking), with the (D) symbol before > the action text.. Can this be directed at any methuselah??? No. All bleeds default to your prey, by the definition of "bleed". See the online rulebook [6.1.1] here: http://www.white-wolf.com/VTES/rulebook.html "6.1.1. Bleed Bleeding is one of the most fundamental actions of the game. It is the basic means of removing your prey's pool. By default, your minion's bleed actions can be directed only at your prey. Some cards or effects may allow or force you to bleed a Methuselah other than your prey. You can never bleed yourself, however." page 23 of the Sabbat War Rulebook. > Some players were saying no it couldn't that only Night Moves and one > other "directed" bleed (can't remember what they said the other bleed > card was) could be sent towards any methuselah, and that bleeds were > now implied to ALWAYS go towards your prey.. Is this true? Yes. A card must have explicit text saying that it can target another Methuselah. Bleeds are only directed at your prey unless the card says specifically that you can bleed someone else. See Cat Burglary, Night Moves, Kindred Spirits. If any (D) bleed could target anyone, then these cards would not need to exist. They do exist however and are part of the argument that you may only bleed your prey unless the card text says otherwise. > I've looked all over the rules online and the errata for cards like > C.H., as well as errata for bleeding in general, but found no mention > of anything like this... > And since I was looking at the new Sabbat War version of Computer > hacking it has (D) bleed text, just like the old card; and if you > can't direct a bleed via C.H. at another methuselah (as ALL bleeds > are implied to be towards your prey), then why have the (D) on there > at all? Because only the Methuselah at whom the action is DIRECTED may attempt to block. With bleeds you always direct the action at your prey, unless the card specifically says otherwise. > Better to only have the (D) symbol there for cards that can bleed > other targets.. However this only applies "if" you can't direct bleeds > like computer hacking at other methuselahs.. Take another look at page 28, this is the only place you will find discussion of the (D) symbol, it indicates who may block, no more, no less. http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=677733225 http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=633890840 Carpe Noctem. Lasombra http://lasombra.tripod.com http://legbiter.tripod.com All card text quotes from: - http://www.white-wolf.com/VTES/ All ruling quotes from: - http://www.white-wolf.com/VTES/rulings.html [ quoted text not captured ]

Thanks for the indepth answer.. :) One other thing for clarity.. Was this always the way bleeding was handled, or was there a time long ago when you could bleed across the table or at your predator? I ask because if that's so, then my play group has been using directed bleeds incorrectly for a long time.. :) thanks, Adam [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8tko4p$7gf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, aley...@my-deja.com wrote: > Thanks for the indepth answer.. :) > > One other thing for clarity.. Was this always the way bleeding was > handled, or was there a time long ago when you could bleed across the > table or at your predator? Prior to July 7, 1998, you could bleed anyone with a (D) bleed. This was fixed with the second Rules Team Rulings done by the current rules team. http://lasombra.tripod.com/RTR7-7.htm > I ask because if that's so, then my play group has been using directed > bleeds incorrectly for a long time.. :) Most people have. Glad to have you still interested in the Game. Carpe Noctem. Lasombra http://lasombra.tripod.com http://legbiter.tripod.com [ quoted text not captured ]

aley...@my-deja.com wrote: > > Thanks for the indepth answer.. :) > > One other thing for clarity.. Was this always the way bleeding was > handled, or was there a time long ago when you could bleed across the > table or at your predator? > > I ask because if that's so, then my play group has been using directed > bleeds incorrectly for a long time.. :) There had been errata that allowed bleed action cards with (D) symbols on them to be directed at any Methuselah (unless further card text made explicit targets, like Night Moves), with the corresponding errata to remove the (D) symbol from inferior Cat Burglary. That set of errata was removed/reversed in RTR 07-JUL-1998. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/