Black Lotus!

Haha! New vampire on the checklist is named Black Lotus. "Ummm.. why is this vampire going for $300 on ebay?"

Haha! New vampire on the checklist is named Black Lotus. "Ummm.. why is this vampire going for $300 on ebay?" BECAUSE: Black Lotus (R) FoS, capacity 8 Disciplines: OBF PRE SER DOM DAI pot special: has 2 votes, independent, infernal, red list puts a temptation counter on a minion as a +1 stealth action that costs 2 blood... rest of the special's text explains how the temptation counter works like a temptation played at basic ser. or because Black Lotus is a Mtg card that is ultra rare and is well known even to me that never played or wishes to play Mtg. It is something that will never happen to vtes cards, as WW doesnot mock, exploit or harass its buyers/players, by releasing ultra rare cards that can cost so much. Even the R1 crypt cards of FN and Warghoul do not cost so much, though guys don't ever do that thing again (releasing R1 cards that can be used multiple times) because it really hurts the game. George

<geo...@for.auth.gr> schreef in bericht news:1106403085.4...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > because Black Lotus is a Mtg card that is ultra rare and is > well known even to me that never played or wishes to play Mtg. I think he knows... why would he post it, do you think?

Yeah... If its not a Zero cap that I can sack for three pool, I'm going to be pissed. :P

Jeroen Rombouts wrote: > because Black Lotus is a Mtg card that is ultra rare and is > well known even to me that never played or wishes to play Mtg. I think he knows... why would he post it, do you think? yeah, i know that. I just thought it was a good idea to criticize some of the MtG ultra rare's prizes and emphasize that WW is not doing that and should not do that ever... ;) George

> Haha! New vampire on the checklist is named Black Lotus. My Montreal By Night deck grows ever more robust. Serpent of the Light (Setite Antitribu), 10th generation, Auspex, Dementation, Dominate, Obfuscate, Presence, Serpentis... a lovely backstory about growing up the neglected daughter of a religious scholar, who she later Dominated into forgetting his faith once she was Embraced. Third VTES member of the Widows, a Montreal coven also including Creamy Jade and The Rose. (From her stats, she'd be a very unlikely Setite: aus DEM DOM, or aus pre dem DOM... but hey, I'm sure someone's been waiting for that key vampire in their Setite Dementation deck, "Crazy Like a Snake".) --heslin

geo...@for.auth.gr wrote: > Haha! New vampire on the checklist is named Black Lotus. > "Ummm.. why is this vampire going for $300 on ebay?" > BECAUSE: > [snip literal interpretation] I guess they don't have sarcasm in Greece?

geo...@for.auth.gr wrote: > Haha! New vampire on the checklist is named Black Lotus. > > > "Ummm.. why is this vampire going for $300 on ebay?" > > because Black Lotus is a Mtg card that is ultra rare and is > well known even to me that never played or wishes to play Mtg. > It is something that will never happen to vtes cards, as WW doesnot > mock, exploit or harass its buyers/players, by releasing ultra rare > cards > that can cost so much. Even the R1 crypt cards of FN and Warghoul do > not > cost so much, though guys don't ever do that thing again (releasing R1 > cards that can be used multiple times) because it really hurts the > game. > > > George Well, that might be the case, but i recall a Force Will being sold on eBay for some 25$, most propably because it's a sought after MtG card.

George wrote: >> because Black Lotus is a Mtg card that is ultra rare and is >> well known even to me that never played or wishes to play Mtg. >> It is something that will never happen to vtes cards, as WW doesnot >> mock, exploit or harass its buyers/players, by releasing ultra rare >> cards that can cost so much. Umm, not to go too much off topic, but Black Lotus was not released as an "ultra rare card that can cost so much". Black Lotus (like most things) cost as much as it does simply due to supply and demand. It was a card that was released in, what, the first two or three sets of the game in 1994 or something with a small print run, and then was never reprinted. At the time, it was no more rare than, like, another crappy rare (Fungusaur? Roc of Khmer Rouge?). But it is a powerful card that people want one of, for a combination of playability (where it is only useable in a less played format that is dominated by other people with Black Lotuses) and prestige (it is kind of like owning Spiderman #1 or something). Because people want them and there aren't that many of them (not that many were printed in the first place, but not 'cause it was "ultra rare" or anything, just 'cause not that many of any Rares of those sets were printed, and then it was removed from the set on the next reprinting of the base set), they are expensive. I bet if, like, Freak Drive was only printed in Jyhad, then discontnued, never reprinted, and yet still useable in play, it would be selling for a lot of money too. Likely not Black Lotus kind of money ('cause getting a Black Lotus means you can actually win a lot of money in the right tournaments, where Freak Drive, not so much), but certainly a lot more than most other VTES cards. And Magic does not mock, exploit, or harass its buyers/players. Yes. It is very fashionable to be like "Magic suxors! I'm too hipster for that crappy Magic game! Bwaaaa!", but it is just like any other CCG. Like VTES. >>Even the R1 crypt cards of FN and Warghoul do not cost so much, though guys >>don't ever do that thing again (releasing R1 cards that can be used multiple >>times) because it really hurts the game. Again. Supply and demand. The demand for these cards isn't so high--the R1 FN Vampires don't make you win games so much. Neither do War Ghouls, really. I mean, yeah, you can make good decks out of, like, Esmerelda or War Ghouls, but they aren't going to be any better than decks built entierly out of nickel commons. People like them, but in the best of situations, these cards aren't going to go for more than $20.00 (~16 Euro?) each, really. And even that is extreme. 'Cause you don't need them to win tournaments (and winning tournaments in VTES isn't a money making venture, like it is in Magic). Black Lotus makes you win games. There aren't that many of them in circulation. They have high prestige value. Thus, high cost. The people who made Magic have zero control at all over the secondary market value of their cards. Heck, as most Magic competetive play is in an environment, as I understand it, where Black Lotus is illegal, they did everything they could to limit the impact of the secondary market as it pertains to Black Lotuses and the player base. But they still sell for 500 bucks. Go figure. Peter D Bakija pd...@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6 "How does this end?" "In fire." Emperor Turhan and Kosh

Peter D Bakija <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote in news:BE18273B.1CB6A%pd...@lightlink.com: > At the time, it was no more rare than, like, another > crappy rare (Fungusaur? Roc of Khmer Rouge?). Dude. You did _not_ just dis Fungusaur. pe roc of kher ridge is pure ass, though

> Haha! New vampire on the checklist is named Black Lotus. > "Ummm.. why is this vampire going for $300 on ebay?" > BECAUSE: > [snip literal interpretation] I guess they don't have sarcasm in Greece? As i have already said: I KNEW THAT YOU WERE JOKING!!!!!! Anyway, does that mean that you didn't like my idea of the Black Lotus vampire ??? George

Gomi no Sensei wrote: > Dude. You did _not_ just dis Fungusaur. Well, yes. But only in a good way. I mean, like, the only Magic deck I still have in my posession is a White/Green deally that includes the Fungusaur I pulled out of the first Unlimited starter I ever opened in, like, '94 or something. So, yeah, Fungusaur rocks. If only there was a VTES version of Fungusaur... [ quoted text not captured ]

> And Magic does not mock, exploit, or harass its buyers/players. > Have you ever heard of Unglued or Unhinged?

Gregory Stuart Pettigrew wrote: > Have you ever heard of Unglued or Unhinged? Umm, yes? I'm not really seeing your point, relative to what George was talking about. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 21:37:33 -0500, Peter D Bakija <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote: >Gomi no Sensei wrote: > >> Dude. You did _not_ just dis Fungusaur. > >Well, yes. But only in a good way. I mean, like, the only Magic deck I still >have in my posession is a White/Green deally that includes the Fungusaur I >pulled out of the first Unlimited starter I ever opened in, like, '94 or >something. > >So, yeah, Fungusaur rocks. If only there was a VTES version of Fungusaur... That'd be cool! Fung, O'saur Clan: Caitiff (or Pander) Sect: Independant. Capacity: 2 Disciplines: None Special: If ~ is damaged in combat, at the end of that combat, if still ready, you may search your hand, library and ash heap for a discipline card, and put it on ~. ~ does not contest. Morgan Vening

Heck, I've actually played a Settite/Baali deck that used Dementation. Remarkably, it did not work too well.... Regards, Patrick Columbus, OH

Peter D Bakija <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote: > FN Vampires don't make you win games so much. Neither > do War Ghouls, really. I mean, yeah, you can make good > decks out of, like, Esmerelda or War Ghouls, but they aren't > going to be any better than decks built entierly out of nickel > commons. Do you have any empirical evidence to this fact? I'm asking because it would seem, from the little evidence that we have available to us, to indicate that War Ghoul decks, and other similar decks involving "key" rares, *ARE* better than decks built out of commons. > Peter D Bakija > pd...@lightlink.com > http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6 Kevin M., Prince of Henderson, NV (USA) "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier

Kevin M. wrote: > Do you have any empirical evidence to this fact? Of course not. But there are a lot more, like, Malk S+B decks in the TWD archive than War Ghoul decks, for anecdotal evidence. Maybe it is 'cause it is hard to get War Ghouls. But I'm not thinking so much. > I'm asking because it > would seem, from the little evidence that we have available to us, to > indicate that War Ghoul decks, and other similar decks involving "key" > rares, *ARE* better than decks built out of commons. I dunno--I'm still on board with the idea that in the long run, the most effective decks really are still the ones made mostly out of commons--a deck made up of Lost, Govern, Wake, and Deflecton, and a handfull of other cards to fill the deck out, is going to do better, overall, than a War Ghoul based deck for a variety of reasons. But, ya know, I could be wrong. Peter D Bakija pd...@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6 "How does this end?" [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <BE1B12E0.1CC81%pd...@lightlink.com>, Peter D Bakija <pd...@lightlink.com> writes: >I dunno--I'm still on board with the idea that in the long run, the most >effective decks really are still the ones made mostly out of commons--a deck >made up of Lost, Govern, Wake, and Deflecton, and a handfull of other cards >to fill the deck out, is going to do better, overall, than a War Ghoul based >deck for a variety of reasons. > >But, ya know, I could be wrong. I would suggest consideration of the fact that a lot of decks based around commons are "boring" because commons all do the same thing. That is, a lot of bread and butter cards are commons (intentionally) whereas interesting, exciting cards are in uncommons and rares, a lot of the time. (Or are, at least, often originally such, even if they turn up less rare and/or in fixed starters later.) Thus, fascinatingly interesting decks that people want to play with t3h c00l cards use more rares. Examples might include: Baltimore Purge (good, but hard to use well), Spirit Marionette (tricky, but obscenely good in the right hands), Protect Thine Own (some issues re: power level, whichever side of the fence you fall on, I feel). Other obvious common-heavy decks would be a lot of weenie decks - a few Praxis Seizures or Crusades can be nice for the voters, but a lot of the rest can be done with Dodge, Majesty/Staredown, Bribes, Bewitching Oration, or for the non-voters head for Computer Hacking, Laptops, cheap guns, Concealed Weapon, maybe. The recently discussed weenie Fortitude benefits from Undead Persistence (Uncommon) and there's a good case to be made for Molotov Cocktail (common, but only in Anarchs) in some incarnations, but the vast majority of the cards for such can be common - Blood Dolls, damage prevention, trap etc. Weenie decks do really well here, and I'd be hard pressed to say that weenies weren't still viable. Of course, not everyone is going to want to play them. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D Who's ever heard of that, though! EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 Designing a deck that just calls votes. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D That's crazy talk, there.

James Coupe wrote: > I would suggest consideration of the fact that a lot of decks based > around commons are "boring" because commons all do the same thing. Very reasonable point. But then we need to figure out what we are looking for. If we are looking to see if decks with a lot of rares are *better* (in terms of actually winning games) than decks that are mainly commons, that is one thing, where if we are looking to see if decks with lots of rares are *funner* than decks that are mostly commons is a completely different thing. Like, there is another thread about "can we make decks with commons that do well?" (which is, I'm assuming, from a fairly new player) which seems to be looking at how one wins with a deck when one doesn't have a lot of rares. But "winning" and "winning fun" are two different things. [ quoted text not captured ]

Just thought I'd share this i saw at "Damnan's VTES page": http://www.almadrava.net/damnans/Gonzalo/blacklotus.jpg And just to proof that this might just be close to reality : Go to: http://www.almadrava.net/damnans/Gonzalo/giangaleazzo.jpg ; ) Who's creating the cards ??? LOL

[ quoted text not captured ] Cards created by fans or by card designers based on the same RPG material will likely turn out similar. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

So I called several Magic Players and told them: "White Wolf purchased Vtes from Wizards and when they did, they made certain arrangements about which cards could be reprinted. In the KMW set, WW is printing a tournament legal, uncommon Black Lotus" I am having so much fun : ) David

"David Wilson, Mask of a Thousand Names" <derv...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1106712138.6...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Just imagine the EBAY search strings that will have to be adjusted for this. Fred

I can't wait to advertise for Tournaments "1st Place, Black Lotus, entry fee $3" Hah hah hah. I am so happy : ) David

[ quoted text not captured ] Yes, I wasn't criticising ! I think it is in fact great to think that WW shows respect to fans all over the world and listen to their suggestions (especially such a well known name as Damnans)! Having said that, may i also suggest a card ? ; )

Peter B. wrote: I dunno--I'm still on board with the idea that in the long run, the most effective decks really are still the ones made mostly out of commons--a deck made up of Lost, Govern, Wake, and Deflecton, and a handfull of other cards to fill the deck out, is going to do better, overall, than a War Ghoul based deck for a variety of reasons. But, ya know, I could be wrong Well, i don't think that you are wrong but not completely right, either. Vtes is a great game, because the effectiveness of each deck is not a standard thing, but depends on what decks other people are playing, the seating order and other factors. I agree with you that decks with only a few rares can be very effective and win many Vps. On the other hand, there are some decks, that are equaly powerful, but cannot work without some key rares. So, imo rares mostly spice up the game as they give you access to different deck-building concepts. Personaly, my urge to find more cards (rares) deprives from the fact that i want to build many various strange-or not decks to push my gaming experience to the maximum. That and the new sets, help me not to ever get bored of this game. Example: I built a Kiasyd deck, with enough Black Metamorphosis-Darkling Trickery-Shadow Step-magnums+Sniper Rifles. (i will not mention quantities as i don't want to be accused again of bragging...). In the beggining when i didn't have any of these rares or just only 1, i substituted Black Metamorphosis with Arms of the Abyss, Darkling Trickery-Shadow Step with Darkness within-Fake outs and Sniper Rifles with Magnums. So, what i mean is that some rares can be substituted with C and U, of course for a lesser effect, but you can still play your deck and have fun even without them. Later, as you gain more rares, you can start substituting these with rares if you think that it will be better. On the other hand, some rares (like Golconda, Mind Rape, Temptation) cannot be substituted, so if you want to play a Mind Rape or Temptation deck, then you need some of these cards... Golconda cannot be substituted, but you can still play without it. Of course, Golconda is one of the only few rares that the fact that is RARE is translated in power. So, rares mostly give you access to different types of deck-building and are not completely essential to playing the game. Finaly, concerning the Warghoul rares deck and the DOM-OBF commons deck, well, the warghoul deck would always kick the ass of the DOM-OBF deck. But you can't say, based on this fact, that rares kick the ass of commons, as a Political deck with enough majesty, Domain Challenge and Kindred Segregation would definetely kick the Warghoul's fat ass. George

Little Tailor of Angra wrote: > LSJ wrote: >>Cards created by fans or by card designers based on the >>same RPG material will likely turn out similar. >> > Yes, I wasn't criticising ! > I think it is in fact great to think that WW shows respect to fans all > over the world and listen to their suggestions (especially such a well > known name as Damnans)! > Having said that, may i also suggest a card ? ; ) The point was that Giangaleazzo and Black Lotus were created based on the RPG material. I didn't know Gines had also created vampires based on the same RPG material (oh, I had probably seen them among his thousands, but had forgotten by the time it came to design those two). Suggest away. Here's a good spot. LasombrAdonai may still be archiving such suggestions, I don't know. [ quoted text not captured ]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 LSJ wrote: | Little Tailor of Angra wrote: | |> I think it is in fact great to think that WW shows respect to fans all |> over the world and listen to their suggestions (especially such a well | | The point was that Giangaleazzo and Black Lotus were created based | on the RPG material. I didn't know Gines had also created vampires | based on the same RPG material (oh, I had probably seen them among | his thousands, but had forgotten by the time it came to design those | two). | | Suggest away. Here's a good spot. LasombrAdonai may still be | archiving such suggestions, I don't know. You may be thinking of the "Frequently Offered Clever Suggestions" list, which serves to archive such gems as "their shud be a 4CL!!!111" and other, more apropros ideas that seem to come up often. I don't believe he archives random fan card suggestions at all... since there are what, something on the order of 8,000,000 of those a year, all of whom are hoping that YES, THEIRS will somehow see print... nevermind the legal and "watch the game disintegrate" issues involved with taking fan ideas :) Aside: Kids, designers get paid to do this because it's not as easy as "th1s c4rd wud be k00l!" There's a lot of future planning involved, and ideas need to match both the forward storyline AND the game balance ... for a game that's not being played yet. Make sense? - -- Derek insert clever quotation here -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32) iD8DBQFB95/jtQZlu3o7QpERArRWAKC+MrN6xlDBFusIT4MZOGAfC/GUwgCfdt/h GlT79C6+9bED3G/y+ahMMaQ= =v4gk -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Derek Ray wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > LSJ wrote: > | Little Tailor of Angra wrote: > | > |> I think it is in fact great to think that WW shows respect to fans all > |> over the world and listen to their suggestions (especially such a well > | > | The point was that Giangaleazzo and Black Lotus were created based > | on the RPG material. I didn't know Gines had also created vampires > | based on the same RPG material (oh, I had probably seen them among > | his thousands, but had forgotten by the time it came to design those > | two). > | > | Suggest away. Here's a good spot. LasombrAdonai may still be > | archiving such suggestions, I don't know. [...] > I don't believe he archives random fan card suggestions at all... since > there are what, something on the order of 8,000,000 of those a year, all > of whom are hoping that YES, THEIRS will somehow see print... nevermind > the legal and "watch the game disintegrate" issues involved with taking > fan ideas :) Maybe you should have a look at this >:-) http://www.thelasombra.com/random.txt [...] Greetings, Damnans -- http://www.almadrava.net/damnans http://www.vtes.net

Thanks Damnans! that will have me laughing all day long! David

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Damnans wrote: |> | Suggest away. Here's a good spot. LasombrAdonai may still be |> | archiving such suggestions, I don't know. | |> I don't believe he archives random fan card suggestions at all... since |> there are what, something on the order of 8,000,000 of those a year, all |> of whom are hoping that YES, THEIRS will somehow see print... nevermind |> the legal and "watch the game disintegrate" issues involved with taking |> fan ideas :) | | Maybe you should have a look at this >:-) | | http://www.thelasombra.com/random.txt A monument to futility. I stand corrected -- apparently he DOES archive random suggestions. =) - -- Derek insert clever quotation here -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32) iD8DBQFB+ESNtQZlu3o7QpERApO9AJ40/px0EJcD28+s51F0ibto/OayUgCeLf8Z /6CuWXb6Vbuu8M1nsb2SDj0= =EgUc -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 08:49:23 -0500, Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote: >| Suggest away. Here's a good spot. LasombrAdonai may still be >| archiving such suggestions, I don't know. >You may be thinking of the "Frequently Offered Clever Suggestions" list, >which serves to archive such gems as "their shud be a 4CL!!!111" and >other, more apropros ideas that seem to come up often. >I don't believe he archives random fan card suggestions at all... since >there are what, something on the order of 8,000,000 of those a year, all >of whom are hoping that YES, THEIRS will somehow see print... nevermind >the legal and "watch the game disintegrate" issues involved with taking >fan ideas :) I do record fan suggestions. I am not fanatical about getting them all. Most posts that have 1-3 cards that aren't buried in a thread 50-75 posts in are archived here: http://www.TheLasombra.com/random.txt I also collect significant card contributions here: http://www.TheLasombra.com/newcards.htm Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com Your best online source for information about V:TES. Now also featuring individual card sales and sales of booster and starter box displays.