Watenda vs Form of Mist

If a vampire with PRO is in combat with Watenda, and plays the new Form of Mist, can he decide to wait for Watenda to cancel it before burning the blood? If Watenda does cancel it, can they play another one? I presume that blood-burned or not, Watenda doesn't have to burn any, since it is not a cost of the card...

Jozxyqk wrote: > If a vampire with PRO is in combat with Watenda, and plays the new > Form of Mist [at superior], can he decide to wait for Watenda to > cancel it before burning the blood? He would have to, just like he would have to wait for Watenda to cancel it before continuing the action. > If Watenda does cancel it, can they play another one? No. Card text limits it to being played at superior only once. > I presume that blood-burned or not, Watenda doesn't have to burn any, since > it is not a cost of the card... Correct. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3ECB664...@white-wolf.com>... > Jozxyqk wrote: > > If a vampire with PRO is in combat with Watenda, and plays the new > > Form of Mist [at superior], can he decide to wait for Watenda to > > cancel it before burning the blood? > > He would have to, just like he would have to wait for Watenda to > cancel it before continuing the action. > > > If Watenda does cancel it, can they play another one? > > No. Card text limits it to being played at superior only once. How is Watenda's ability different from Direct Intervention? How is Watenda vs Form of Mist different from DI vs. Bleed Modifiers? Currently, the text on the bleed modifier is ignored (allowing you to play a different bleed modifier) but the same modifier cannot be played due to No Repeat Action Modifier Game Rule. However, Form of Mist is no longer an Action Modifier, right? No symbol on the new card. (Unless [RTR 19980623] is still in effect after the Anarch Reprinting). Only the text on Form of Mist prohibits you from playing more than one on the same action. And that is cancelled, yes? -Mike Ooi

On 21 May 2003 14:49:46 -0700, sh...@texas.net (MikeOoiGoogle) wrote: >Currently, the text on the bleed modifier is ignored (allowing you to >play a different bleed modifier) but the same modifier cannot be >played due to No Repeat Action Modifier Game Rule. >However, Form of Mist is no longer an Action Modifier, right? No >symbol on the new card. (Unless [RTR 19980623] is still in effect >after the Anarch Reprinting). Only the text on Form of Mist prohibits >you from playing more than one on the same action. And that is >cancelled, yes? Card text on the next Form of Mist sees that you have already played one and prohibits its play. Same as a second Giant's Blood when the first was suddened, a DI'd Carrion Crows, a DI'd Ancient Influence. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com

sh...@texas.net (MikeOoiGoogle) wrote in message news:<6abb59ad.03052...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] Found this on a search for "direct intervention + threats". Should clear things up. I believe Watenda slots into to the description of a DI'd immortal grapple. -scrote Search Result 1 From: James Coupe (ja...@zephyr.org.uk) Subject: Re: [LSJ] Direct Intervention again... View: Complete Thread (6 articles) Original Format Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Date: 2003-02-26 02:30:48 PST In message <2CX6a.9609$Nf.2...@news1.west.cox.net>, Kevin M. <you...@imaspammer.org> writes: >Of course you are. DI doesn't work the same for everything, even though >it should. This is one of those counter-intuative things you just have >to memorize. No, Direct Intervention works the same for everything (with a couple of extra bits on top for retrieving cost). However, different cards work differently *in the first place*. There is a RULE in the game that says "You may not play the same action modifier twice in the same action with the same minion." Direct Intervention cancels the effect of the card, not the fact that it was *ever played*. So, you play Threats. It gets DI-ed. *But you still played Threats*. So you cannot play another Threats. The *entire text* of Threats is cancelled. So there is nothing prohibiting you from playing another bleed modifier from the Threats card text. (But you cannot play Threats again, due to the same action modifier.) You wanted to play Threats, but it was DI-ed. So you play Conditioning. Conditioning's card text: "After playing this card, you cannot play another action modifier to further increase the bleed for this action." *AFTER PLAYING THIS CARD*. Conditioning does not look at *previously* played cards. And there has been no *previous* card text to stop Conditioning being played. (Threats' card text was cancelled.) Next type of card: Immortal Grapple. There is no rule that says "Two copies of the same combat card cannot be played during the same combat." For instance, you can play Flash twice in the same combat, or the same round of combat. (For instance, to maneuver away to long range twice, with a maneuver to close range in between, or a maneuver and a press, both at inferior.) So, you play Immortal Grapple. It gets DI-ed. There is nothing *in terms of the rules* that prevents you playing another Immortal Grapple. HOWEVER, card text says: " A vampire may play only 1 Immortal Grapple each round." This is *VERY* different to Threats and Conditioning etc. They refer to bleed modifiers played *afterwards*. Immortal Grapple refers to Immortal Grapple in the *entire round*. Just as with Threats, Immortal Grapple was played, but its text was cancelled. Immortal Grapple was still played, however. The card text *on the second Immortal Grapple* says "Only one can be played". Since playing it would automatically break this card text (it would see that *2* had been played), you cannot play it. Direct Intervention still works the same. Immortal Grapple was still played and had no effect. *But the second copy of Immortal Grapple's card text prevents it being played the second time round, because it looks at the whole round.* This is not the same card text as Threats or Bonding. (Threats or Bonding etc. saying "Only one action modifier per action" would mean they couldn't be played with DOM Command of the Beast, rendering it largely useless, because they would look retroactively at the action, even though the lack of card text exploits the fact that the only things that prevent a bleed modifier being played are the repeat- action-modifier rule AND the fact that the bleed modifiers only restrict *later* bleed modifiers, not *earlier* ones.) Next type of card: Action. There is a rule which refers to repeating actions - either by it being a *bleed* or a *political action* or a *named card*. However, this only kicks in *when the action resolves*. With Direct Intervention, you stop the card *as it is played*, so the action never even *starts*. Direct Intervention goes in the gap before the action is even announced. (So you play DI before you play, say, Seduction.) So, I play Govern the Unaligned. I get DI-ed. There is no rule that says I cannot take another bleed action (because it never resolved) or play GtU again (because it never resolved). "The taint is applied to the minion who is the acting minion when the action resolves (successfully, blocked, ended, or otherwise)." [LSJ 20021217] 'Right. The NRA rule doesn't care about action cards "played". It cares about actions performed. If the action never happens, it isn't performed.' [LSJ 20011005] (And the NRA rule works in the same respect as the new TCE rule.) Any others? -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 Hi! I'm Nancy Drew! You must be the Hardy Boys! 13D7E668C3695D623D5D

MikeOoiGoogle wrote: > How is Watenda's ability different from Direct Intervention? How is DI causes the cost not to be played. Watenda's ability can only be used on combat cards. DI costs a pool and a master phase action in your next master phase. Watenda's ability costs X blood. Other than that, they're basically the same. > Watenda vs Form of Mist different from DI vs. Bleed Modifiers? It's not, save for the rule on repeating action modifiers (and where card text differ, of course). > Currently, the text on the bleed modifier is ignored (allowing you to > play a different bleed modifier) but the same modifier cannot be > played due to No Repeat Action Modifier Game Rule. Correct. > However, Form of Mist is no longer an Action Modifier, right? No > symbol on the new card. (Unless [RTR 19980623] is still in effect > after the Anarch Reprinting). Only the text on Form of Mist prohibits > you from playing more than one on the same action. And that is > cancelled, yes? Yes. But the card text on the next one you want to play, the uncanceled one, prohbits itself from being played. [ quoted text not captured ]