Form of Mist

Can I use FoM just as Combat ends if my minion is acting? Can I use FoM just as Combat ends if my minion is acting and I played another FoM before the Psyche! was used? Can I use FoM just as Combat ends if my minion is not the acting one? take Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

take...@my-deja.com wrote: > Can I use FoM just as Combat ends if my minion is acting? > Can I use FoM just as Combat ends if my minion is acting and I played > another FoM before the Psyche! was used? > Can I use FoM just as Combat ends if my minion is not the acting one? No. FoM is a strike - it can only be played during a "choose strike" phase. It cannot be played "just as Combat Ends". -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <958sq1$2sp$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] I think what is being asked is can he do the following... 1) Use a FoM as a S:CE (S) without the continue the action at +1 stealth if the acting vampire in the combat. 2) Use a FoM as a S:CE (S) during a combat where a Psyche! was used if the acting vampire. If so, would it continue the action? 3) Use a FoM as a S:CE (S) if not the acting vampire in the combat. Michael Eichler Prince of Ramstein -- Worry comes from the belief you are powerless. (So get in there and kick some butt!) [ quoted text not captured ]

Ramsteiner <ramst...@my-deja.com> wrote: > I think what is being asked is can he do the following... Ah quite right. Sorry: > 1) Use a FoM as a S:CE (S) without the continue the action at +1 > stealth if the acting vampire in the combat. No. (card text) > 2) Use a FoM as a S:CE (S) during a combat where a Psyche! was used if > the acting vampire. If so, would it continue the action? Yes. Yes. > 3) Use a FoM as a S:CE (S) if not the acting vampire in the combat. Yes. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <959bhj$f94$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Ramsteiner <ramst...@my-deja.com> wrote: > > I think what is being asked is can he do the following... > > > 2) Use a FoM as a S:CE (S) during a combat where a Psyche! was used if the acting vampire. If so, would it continue the action? > > Yes. Yes. > Actually, from the original posting, what I think was being asked in point 2 was; - Acting minion plays FoM (S) to try to continue action - Reacting minion plays Psyche, so combat starts again - In new combat, can action minion play FoM (S) again? In which case, the answer is no, as FoM (S) is an action modifier, and the same action modifier cannot be played on the same action twice. The acting minion could play FoM at inferior to dodge however. [ quoted text not captured ]

hel...@my-deja.com wrote: > Actually, from the original posting, what I think was being asked in > point 2 was; > - Acting minion plays FoM (S) to try to continue action > - Reacting minion plays Psyche, so combat starts again > - In new combat, can action minion play FoM (S) again? That doesn't seem to be the original question, but if so... > In which case, the answer is no, as FoM (S) is an action modifier, and > the same action modifier cannot be played on the same action twice. > The acting minion could play FoM at inferior to dodge however. Correct. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <959bhj$f94$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Ramsteiner <ramst...@my-deja.com> wrote: > > I think what is being asked is can he do the following... > > Ah quite right. Sorry: > > > 1) Use a FoM as a S:CE (S) without the continue the action at +1 > > stealth if the acting vampire in the combat. > > No. (card text) > > > 2) Use a FoM as a S:CE (S) during a combat where a Psyche! was used if > > the acting vampire. If so, would it continue the action? > > Yes. Yes. Will he continue the action after the new combat provided by Psyche!? Or will FoM prevent from doing the new combat? Thanx. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <95fdik$rgm$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, francoi...@my-deja.com wrote: > Will he continue the action after the new combat provided by Psyche!? > Or will FoM prevent from doing the new combat? > Thanx. Form of Mist does not prevent a new combat from starting. A new combat starting prevents the action from continuing. Reread LSJ's responses to this thread if you are still confused. Carpe Noctem. Lasombra http://lasombra.tripod.com http://legbiter.tripod.com http://vekn_clans.tripod.com [ quoted text not captured ]

francoi...@my-deja.com wrote: > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > Ramsteiner <ramst...@my-deja.com> wrote: > > > 2) Use a FoM as a S:CE (S) during a combat where a Psyche! was > > > used if the acting vampire. If so, would it continue the action? > > > > Yes. Yes. > > Will he continue the action after the new combat provided by Psyche!? > Or will FoM prevent from doing the new combat? The question above is: vamp A and vamp B are in combat (B blocked A's action). Combat ends (by whatever means) with both A and B still ready. B (or A) plays superior Psyche! to start a new combat. In that new combat, can A play superior FoM and, if so, will the action continue. Answer: yes. yes. Your question: A is blocked by B. In the resulting combat, A plays FoM superior to end combat and continue the action. B plays superior Psyche! to start a new combat. In this case, as specified in the online rulings, the "continue action" effect is lost altogether. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <95gvlt$5m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > francoi...@my-deja.com wrote: > > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > > Ramsteiner <ramst...@my-deja.com> wrote: > > > > 2) Use a FoM as a S:CE (S) during a combat where a Psyche! was > > > > used if the acting vampire. If so, would it continue the action? > > > > > > Yes. Yes. > > > > Will he continue the action after the new combat provided by Psyche!? > > Or will FoM prevent from doing the new combat? > > The question above is: vamp A and vamp B are in combat (B blocked > A's action). Combat ends (by whatever means) with both A and B > still ready. B (or A) plays superior Psyche! to start a new > combat. In that new combat, can A play superior FoM and, if so, > will the action continue. > > Answer: yes. yes. > > Your question: > A is blocked by B. In the resulting combat, A plays FoM superior to > end combat and continue the action. B plays superior Psyche! to > start a new combat. > > In this case, as specified in the online rulings, the "continue > action" effect is lost altogether. Thank you very much, it's much more clear. We have always made a mistake before: we normally let the new combat begin and then, if A was still ready at the end of the 2nd combat, he continued the action with +1 stealth. [ quoted text not captured ]

same card, different question: * The superior form cannot be used by the acting vampire unless he needs the stealth. [RTR 19970630] several places i've read the ruling that you may ONLY use the superior form of mist if the stealth is "needed" (as with all stealth modifiers.) when is it needed, and when isn't it needed? ======= example 1: dre is the only minion (currently) attempting to block camille's bleed, though there's another untapped minion. dre blocks camille. camille wants to play superior form of mist (as a strike.) dre is tapped from the successful block, and therefore can't (currently, without a wake or something) block. no other minions have attempted a block (yet,) so as far as i can see, camille doesn't "need" the stealth. but this is a common scenario where i've seen Sup FoM used. ====== example 2: dre tries to block camille as before. camille plays earth control at superior to get +2 stealth. zoe plays enough intercept to catch camille. camille wants to play Sup FoM to continue the action, but her stealth on the bleed is already +2, more than enough to get by dre, the only minion remaining. here, she CAN'T? she must settle for the inferior (strike: dodge,) and possibly eat the blur!? ===== These kinds of examples are the only confusing part of the card for me. -spinnnnnnnnnn@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@y ===== = [ quoted text not captured ]

spin...@my-deja.com wrote: > same card, different question: > * The superior form cannot be used by the acting vampire unless he > needs the stealth. [RTR 19970630] > several places i've read the ruling that you may ONLY use the superior > form of mist if the stealth is "needed" (as with all stealth > modifiers.) > when is it needed, and when isn't it needed? Stealth is "needed" by a minion exactly when: * That minion is the acting minion. * There is a blocking minion. * The blocking minion's intercept >= the acting minion's stealth. > ======= > example 1: dre is the only minion (currently) attempting to block > camille's bleed, though there's another untapped minion. dre blocks > camille. camille wants to play superior form of mist (as a strike.) > dre is tapped from the successful block, and therefore can't > (currently, without a wake or something) block. no other minions have > attempted a block (yet,) so as far as i can see, camille doesn't > "need" the stealth. She can - Dre is the blocking minion and his intercept is sufficient (and Camille is acting). > ====== > example 2: dre tries to block camille as before. camille plays earth > control at superior to get +2 stealth. zoe plays enough intercept to > catch camille. camille wants to play Sup FoM to continue the action, > but her stealth on the bleed is already +2, more than enough to get by > dre, the only minion remaining. here, she CAN'T? she must settle for > the inferior (strike: dodge,) and possibly eat the blur!? She can - Zoe is the blocking minion and her intercept is sufficient. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

> > ====== > > example 2: dre tries to block camille as before. camille plays earth > > control at superior to get +2 stealth. zoe plays enough intercept to > > catch camille. camille wants to play Sup FoM to continue the action, > > but her stealth on the bleed is already +2, more than enough to get by > > dre, the only minion remaining. here, she CAN'T? she must settle for > > the inferior (strike: dodge,) and possibly eat the blur!? > > She can - Zoe is the blocking minion and her intercept is > sufficient. > > -- > LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. > Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ > > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/ so it doesn't matter that zoe is tapped (from the "successful" block and subsequent combat,) and now if she wants to block, she only needs to play 1 more intercept, not a wake or something? is she untapped when the block again becomes "unsuccessful?" whether or not she decides to try to block again? == -spintoy == === [ quoted text not captured ]

spin...@my-deja.com wrote: > so it doesn't matter that zoe is tapped (from the "successful" block > and subsequent combat,) and now if she wants to block, she only needs > to play 1 more intercept, not a wake or something? is she untapped > when the block again becomes "unsuccessful?" whether or not she > decides to try to block again? If the action continues via Form of Mist, then Zoe would have to attempt to block the action again, something she could not normally do while tapped, no. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <95hmf5$hab$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] Zoe is still the blocking the action that continued with her +2 intercept, if she finds one more intercept she can block the action again. If she cannot or declines to do so then she does not untap because minions that fail to block do not untap ( and she has already successfully blocked the action once, which taps her ). A blocking minion taps if the block is successful as opposed to tapping when attempting to block and untapping if not successfull. Which brings me to a question of my own. Vamp A takes and action Vamp B blocks Vamp A plays Form of Mist(S) Vamp C plays Hidden Lurker Does Vamp C enter combat with B and Vamp A loose it's continue action effect? [ quoted text not captured ]

<gray...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:95kkcn$gmc$1...@nnrp1.deja.com... > Which brings me to a question of my own. > Vamp A takes and action > Vamp B blocks > Vamp A plays Form of Mist(S) > Vamp C plays Hidden Lurker > > Does Vamp C enter combat with B and Vamp A loose it's continue action > effect? Yes. Not to get all cranky and stuff, but this has been answered multiple times in the past week or so. Xian

In article <95gvlt$5m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > Your question: > A is blocked by B. In the resulting combat, A plays FoM superior to > end combat and continue the action. B plays superior Psyche! to > start a new combat. > > In this case, as specified in the online rulings, the "continue > action" effect is lost altogether. > You must get sick of clarifying FoM, but here's another one. I was in a game yesterday where the following happened. Minion A was blocked by Minion B. Minion A played FoM (S). That card was Directly Intervened. Minion A attempted to play another FoM (S). I ruled that he could not, because it would be a second indentical action modifier. Minion A then wanted to play FoM (S) as a combat card only (to end combat, but not continue the action). I ruled that he could not because an acting minion playing FoM (S) can only play it as an action modifier. Was I right? [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <95ij17$5su$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] What if.. Vamp B blocks Vamp A A plays Form of Mist(S) Vamp C plays Hidden Lurker Does Vamp A loose the continue action effect? Would it be true say that if a combat is continued by any means ( even if it is continued by a different minion ) that the continue action effect does not occur? [ quoted text not captured ]

gray...@my-deja.com wrote: > What if.. > Vamp B blocks Vamp A > A plays Form of Mist(S) > Vamp C plays Hidden Lurker > > Does Vamp A [lose] the continue action effect? Yes. See the online rulings. > Would it be true say that > if a combat is continued by any means ( even if it is continued by a > different minion ) that the continue action effect does not occur? Yes. See the online rulings. [ quoted text not captured ]

hel...@my-deja.com wrote: > Minion A was blocked by Minion B. Minion A played FoM (S). That card > was Directly Intervened. Minion A attempted to play another FoM (S). > I ruled that he could not, because it would be a second indentical > action modifier. Minion A then wanted to play FoM (S) as a combat > card only (to end combat, but not continue the action). I ruled that > he could not because an acting minion playing FoM (S) can only play it > as an action modifier. > > Was I right? Yes. See elsewhere in this thread. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> writes: > > as an action modifier. > > > > Was I right? > > Yes. See elsewhere in this thread. Different tack (and not a question I expect an official answer to, but it's something worth raising): Despite it being a Protean card, and therefore not much use at all to the Independent clans, is there any way that the design team for Final Nights could see there way to allowing Form of Mist into Final Nights, with a reprinted, re-edited and much clearer card text than is on current print? e.g. Form of Mist Cardtype: Combat Discipline: Protean Strike: dodge (S) Strike: combat ends. When played by an acting vampire, this card counts as an action modifier and the action continues at +1 stealth as if unblocked (this action can still be blocked). The continue action effect is lost if combat starts again or is continued. -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D Standard disclaimers apply to this post. Full written details available upon request. Your statutory rights are not affected.

In article <Rslf6.2379$mO6.4...@news.uswest.net>, [ quoted text not captured ] I usually remember all the rulings here as well as the online ones, or at least remember that a ruling has been made. I know what it's like to answer the same question over and over again, I'll have to try to be more thorough next time before asking. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <95bgsv$bu0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > hel...@my-deja.com wrote: > > Actually, from the original posting, what I think was being asked in > > point 2 was; > > - Acting minion plays FoM (S) to try to continue action > > - Reacting minion plays Psyche, so combat starts again > > - In new combat, can action minion play FoM (S) again? > > That doesn't seem to be the original question, but if so... Actually it was my question =) [ quoted text not captured ]