Sects and Titles

I'm a little bit confused about how and when titles "stick around". Example #1: Let's say that I use Derange to make Beast into a Malkavian, and then Roxanne plays an Of Noble Blood on him. He's now a Primogen. Then Beast takes the action to move the Derange away from himself. So he's lost his Primogen title. But then, for whatever reason, the Derange is bounced back onto Beast. Is he a Primogen again? Example #2: Jimmy Dunn equips with a Writ of Acceptance. Then he calls Praxis Seizure: Boston. Then, in combat, someone's Canine Horde eats his Writ. Is he still "Prince of Boston" but can't use it? If someone brings Cardano into play, does the title contest and then "instantly yield" at Jimmy's untap phase? Or is it gone? If he plays another Writ, does he regain the title? Thanks.

>I'm a little bit confused about how and when titles "stick around". >Example #1: >Let's say that I use Derange to make Beast into a Malkavian, and then >Roxanne plays an Of Noble Blood on him. He's now a Primogen. >Then Beast takes the action to move the Derange away from himself. >So he's lost his Primogen title. >But then, for whatever reason, the Derange is bounced back onto Beast. >Is he a Primogen again? Yes. The title is still there (possibly hovering invisibly if you're the wrong sect right now) until that vampire gains a new title (possibly the same title) or the title is contested (for Princes, Archbishops, and Justicars). See Section 10 of the Rulebook: "A vampire must belong to the appropriate sect to receive a title. If a vampire with a title changes clans or sects to a clan or sect inappropriate for his title, he loses the benefit of the title until his clan or sect changes appropriately. If he receives a new title or if his title is contested (see Contested Titles, sec. 4.2), he immediately yields the old title." >Example #2: >Jimmy Dunn equips with a Writ of Acceptance. >Then he calls Praxis Seizure: Boston. >Then, in combat, someone's Canine Horde eats his Writ. >Is he still "Prince of Boston" but can't use it? Essentially yes. He gains neither the benefits or penalties of being a Prince while in such a state. Once again, "he loses the benefit of the title until his clan or sect changes appropriately" >If someone brings Cardano into play, does the title contest and then >"instantly yield" at Jimmy's untap phase? No. The title is contested and Jimmy's instantly yields. "If he receives a new title or if his title is contested (see Contested Titles, sec. 4.2), he immediately yields the old title." Though since the title was contested, Cardano won't gain control of Boston till his next untap phase. >Or is it gone? Not necessarily. If Jimmy's Writ is gone, he hasn't gained a new title, and the title hasn't been contested, it's still there (just not really visible). >If he plays another Writ, does he regain the title? Assuming none of those conditions occurred, yes he does regain the title. I highly suggest reviewing Section 10 of the Rulebook: Vampire Sects, since it covers a lot of the questions you were asking. Halcyan 2

educated uncertainty but here goes: "Jozxyqk" <jfeu...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote in message news:O%1f9.55772$Jo.8342@rwcrnsc53... > I'm a little bit confused about how and when titles "stick around". > Example #1: > Let's say that I use Derange to make Beast into a Malkavian, and then > Roxanne plays an Of Noble Blood on him. He's now a Primogen. > Then Beast takes the action to move the Derange away from himself. > So he's lost his Primogen title. I believe it is "suspended" > But then, for whatever reason, the Derange is bounced back onto Beast. > Is he a Primogen again? Presuming the Derange is bounced back to him from a Malk and not from a !Malk I believe he is again a primogem > > Example #2: > Jimmy Dunn equips with a Writ of Acceptance. > Then he calls Praxis Seizure: Boston. > Then, in combat, someone's Canine Horde eats his Writ. > Is he still "Prince of Boston" but can't use it? I say yes, "suspended" title > If someone brings Cardano into play, does the title contest and then > "instantly yield" at Jimmy's untap phase? Or is it gone? A "suspended" title cannot contest. Its "yielded" immediately and Cardano would have his title as of Jimmy's controller's untap phase > If he plays another Writ, does he regain the title? Presuming that Cardano came into play and the title was yielded - no Presuming Cardano did NOT come into play and he gains another writ - yes hope this helps (and I hope even more that I'm right ;-D ) -JTP

Halcyan 2 wrote: > >If someone brings Cardano into play, does the title contest and then > >"instantly yield" at Jimmy's untap phase? > > No. The title is contested and Jimmy's instantly yields. "If he receives a new > title or if his title is contested (see Contested Titles, sec. 4.2), he > immediately yields the old title." Though since the title was contested, > Cardano won't gain control of Boston till his next untap phase. Cardano gets Boston immediately. Just as Jimmy Dunn doesn't contest, a "suspended" title doesn't contest. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/