In article <3la59j$4...@harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au>,
jac...@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr JA Chapman) wrote:
> The other night I'd just pushed through a conservative agitation
> which would have won the game for me when some Ventrue player dropped an
> EKN on me and claimed that it didnt matter that the vote was passed
> nothing was going to happen . While I dont have the card on me it DID say
> something like 'if vote passed then no effect' . I had noticed it earlier but
> assumed that it meant that if the vote passed the EKN had no effect but
> my friend's response was that that would make the EKN a pretty weak
> Political Backlash . Could someone out there give me their interpretation
> on this.
EKN is a great card for a Ventrue deck. For starters, there is no effect
if the vote passes. But the real strength of EKN comes into play if the
vote does not pass. The card states (roughly) that if the vote is a tie,
the Meth calling the vote loses 1 pool, and an additional pool for each
additional vote difference. If the vote fails on a tie, the Meth. loses 1
pool. But if the Meth loses by 5 votes, a whopping 6 pool is lost. The
most valuabe way to play this card is immediately after the vote is
called. This allows other Meths to see that the referrendum will not take
effect, giving them the opportunity to heap votes on the opposing side,
thereby costing the voting Meth dearly. (Although I can see where some
Meths might vote for the Referrendum so the voter is not ousteed) So,
under the right circumstances, EKN can be much more powerful than a
Political Backlash.
One question does leap to my mind, however. A vote that passes but does
not take effect can still be successfully modified. For example, INO a
Voter Captivation would still gain a vamp blood from a successful vote
that does not take effect. In addition, any Bribes would still be paid.
What does everyone else think about this?
In article <3la59j$4...@harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au>,
Mr JA Chapman <jac...@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au> wrote:
> The other night I'd just pushed through a conservative agitation
>which would have won the game for me when some Ventrue player dropped an
>EKN on me and claimed that it didnt matter that the vote was passed
>nothing was going to happen . While I dont have the card on me it DID say
A successful vote means that Elder Kindred Network has no
effect, not that the vote has no effect. [DTR]
| If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--*
| PC game, call the announce line at | js...@vt.edu
| ** csi...@discus.ise.vt.edu ** |
+-------------------------------------+----------------------------------
"Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK
Mr JA Chapman (jac...@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au) wrote:
: The other night I'd just pushed through a conservative agitation
: which would have won the game for me when some Ventrue player dropped an
: EKN on me and claimed that it didnt matter that the vote was passed
: nothing was going to happen . While I dont have the card on me it DID say: something like 'if vote passed then no effect' . I had noticed it earlier but: assumed that it meant that if the vote passed the EKN had no effect but
: my friend's response was that that would make the EKN a pretty weak
: Political Backlash . Could someone out there give me their interpretation
: on this.
Actual wording on the card:
Only usable during a political action before any votes are cast.
Succesful vote means there is no effect. If the votre fails...
Your friend was not legally allowed to play the EKN at the point he did,
as it was not 'before any votes were cast' (by the sound of it).
Other than that, the second sentence can be interpreted in two ways:
- Successful vote means there is no effect FROM THAT VOTE
- Successful vote means there is no effect FROM THE EKN
the DT has never issued errata to clarify which of these interpretations
is correct, and they are both equally likely given a semantic reading of
the card. Most people I know, however, play with the second
interpretation as otherwise it makes EKN a ridiculously unbalancing card;
If the vote goes through, nothing happens. If the vote does not go
through, you are hosed. Sort of a Damned if you do/damned if you don't
scenario.
Shane Travis | A fanatic is someone who can't change his
sht...@duke.usask.ca | mind and won't change the subject.
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | -- Winston Churchill
In article <3lc2qk$v...@tribune.usask.ca>, sht...@duke.usask.ca (Shane
Hamish William Travis) wrote:
>
> The ONLY way to play this card is immediately after the vote is called.
> (Card Text)
Thanks for the clarification Shane, I did not have the card in front of
me. I would be interested in hearing an official ruling on the "no
effect" clause. I can see how it could be interpreted in a couple of
different ways. And yes, having the vote be nullified is powerful, but
that is not necessarily a bad thing. But reading the other way makes it
seem particularly weak in my eyes, perhaps not much better than a
political backlash as stated in the original posting. But, it might be a
more balanced interpretation of the card.
stephen
In article <3lbv15$q...@solaris.cc.vt.edu> js...@discus.ise.vt.edu (Joseph Cochran) writes:
>From: js...@discus.ise.vt.edu (Joseph Cochran)
>Subject: Re: Elder Kindred Network Query
>Date: 29 Mar 1995 15:40:21 GMT>In article <3la59j$4...@harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au>,>Mr JA Chapman <jac...@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au> wrote:>> The other night I'd just pushed through a conservative agitation
>>which would have won the game for me when some Ventrue player dropped an
>>EKN on me and claimed that it didnt matter that the vote was passed
>>nothing was going to happen . While I dont have the card on me it DID say> A successful vote means that Elder Kindred Network has no>effect, not that the vote has no effect. [DTR]
Yes, this is the proper intepretation of the card, but I have another
question. Does EKN have to be played before voting begins or can it be used
after or during? If EKN could be played after voting, why have the text
saying that if the vote is successful, EKN has no effect?
hi...@mail.utexas.edu (Stephen Beaulieu) writes:
[ quoted text not captured ]
Think of it as an advanced form of Bribes - to get other Meths to vote
against the referendum. When was the last time you saw someone lose 8 pool
from Political Backlash?
L. Scott
Stephen Beaulieu (hi...@mail.utexas.edu) wrote:
: In article <3la59j$4...@harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au>,: EKN is a great card for a Ventrue deck. For starters, there is no effect
: if the vote passes.
I base my interpretation that it is the EKN that has no effect on things
said by Tom Wylie, lo in the days long past when his presence was felt on
this newsgroup. Although not official, it was his stand that the 'no
effect' text was talking about the EKN and not the vote, but that he
would ask the Design Team. And his Journey was arduous and filled with
peril, for we have not seen him since...
[bitter? nah, I'm not bitter...]
: The most valuabe way to play this card is immediately after the vote is
: called.
The ONLY way to play this card is immediately after the vote is called.
(Card Text)
Shane Travis | A fanatic is someone who can't change his
[ quoted text not captured ]
jac...@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr JA Chapman) writes:
> The other night I'd just pushed through a conservative agitation
>which would have won the game for me when some Ventrue player dropped an
>EKN on me and claimed that it didnt matter that the vote was passed
>nothing was going to happen . While I dont have the card on me it DID say>something like 'if vote passed then no effect' . I had noticed it earlier but
>assumed that it meant that if the vote passed the EKN had no effect but
>my friend's response was that that would make the EKN a pretty weak
>Political Backlash . Could someone out there give me their interpretation
>on this.> thanks
> JA.Chapman
Tom Wylie agrees with you, EKN has no effect on a successful vote:
>From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie)
>Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
>Subject: Re: More questions folks !!!
>Date: 22 Jan 1995 05:44:14 GMT
>Message-ID: <3fsrbe$7...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
>>>8. Ho does Eldar Kindred Network work.... It's late and the phrasing of
>>this question is beyond my ken at this time...>
>You play it as the vote begins. If the vote ties, the person who called
>the vote loses 1 pool. If the vote fails completely, the person who
>called the vote loses 1 pool plus 1 for each vote it failed by. If
>the vote is successful, I believe the Network does nothing, but it is possible
>to read the card as cancelling the vote. This is being check with the
>design team.
>
>
>Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for
>aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
>