SW card: Shock Troops

People have posted some very cool new cards from Sabbat War, so here's the one that had me saying "Woah!" until I got to the last line. Shock Troops (a master card) Requires a ready Archbishop or Cardinal X cost Put X Master: Discipline cards from your hand into play. These cards represent clanless Sabbat vampires of 1 capacity with those respective Disciplines and do not count as Master: Discipline cards while in play. These vampires are not unique, must hunt the turn they are created, have -1 stealth on all actions and cannot attempt bleeds or political actions. Sounds like fun, eh? How about dropping 6 Auspex masters down and telepathic countering every bleed 6 times at inferior? Or, just drop 6 of anything, and then play Tribute to the master the next turn? Just recovered your cost, and if you have another Tribute next turn, you gain 6. Assuming no one pounds the little weenies. The coolest thing might be to drop 2 or 3 Dominate down, and then upgrade them to superior dominate as you can, so that you can redirect bleeds. They can take disciplineless actions, like bum's rush or ambush, or arson, though that seems pointless. How about getting some animalism weenies to bring out your Raven Spies, and then one Shepherd's Innocence to collect them all? Hmm, anyway, I'm sure more devious minds than mine will think up evil uses for this card... Trey Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 06:56:15 GMT, Trey <tmo...@my-deja.com> said: Trey> People have posted some very cool new cards from Sabbat War, so here's Trey> the one that had me saying "Woah!" until I got to the last line. Trey> Shock Troops Trey> (a master card) Trey> Requires a ready Archbishop or Cardinal Trey> X cost Trey> Put X Master: Discipline cards from your hand into play. These cards Trey> represent clanless Sabbat vampires of 1 capacity with those respective Trey> Disciplines and do not count as Master: Discipline cards while in play. Trey> These vampires are not unique, must hunt the turn they are created, Trey> have -1 stealth on all actions and cannot attempt bleeds or political Trey> actions. I am given to understand that this card was originally called "Cannon Fodder" in the playtest phase, and was voted "card most likely to be broken" by the local playtesters :) Glad to see it made it into the set. I heard it makes for fun game situations ;) //Petri

On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 06:56:15 GMT, Trey <tmo...@my-deja.com> said: [about Shock Troops] Trey> Hmm, anyway, I'm sure more devious minds than mine will think up evil Trey> uses for this card... Two words: "potence", "diablerie". //Petri

In article <8tlqee$3c2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Trey <tmo...@my-deja.com> wrote: > People have posted some very cool new cards from Sabbat War, so here's > the one that had me saying "Woah!" until I got to the last line. > > Shock Troops > (a master card) > Requires a ready Archbishop or Cardinal > X cost > Put X Master: Discipline cards from your hand into play. These cards > represent clanless Sabbat vampires of 1 capacity with those respective > Disciplines and do not count as Master: Discipline cards while in play. > These vampires are not unique, must hunt the turn they are created, > have -1 stealth on all actions and cannot attempt bleeds or political > actions. My god, this is just waiting to be broken! Although they can't attempt political actions, they can sure can count towards them - e.g. Get the Parthenon in play, play Shock Troops, pay 7 pool for 7 auspex masters to become vamps, play a second copy of the Shock Troops, pay 7 pool for another 7 masters, then play autarkis persicution (or whatever that "gain a pool for each minion you control" vote is) to gain 14+ pool back! Play the vote again for more! Unlikely to get the card draw easily, but that "Storage Matrix" card someone mentioned the other day is BOUND to help! Plus Tributes!!! Plus Blood Dolls / Hunting Grounds. I can see a 70 - 80% master card deck sitting quite happily with this card. Also, with more discipline cards, you could attempt clan impersonations and make them, for example, Lasombra, or even Camerilla - and get them voted Justicars! I want one!!!!! DH [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <7xlmv52...@termiitti.akumiitti.fi>, [ quoted text not captured ] I think to that list you need to add "Covenant of Blood", or even better "Haven Uncovered"! [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <7xpukh2...@termiitti.akumiitti.fi>, [ quoted text not captured ] Does this explain the special on that new !Brujah chick who showed up in preview 3? "Attack any vampire with a capacity less than 4!" DH [ quoted text not captured ]

i say only thaumaturgy and cryptic mission. pallando -- __________________________________________________ lt. cmdr. pallando of g.a.b. black ice team G.A.B. was started to fight Bad Traders. Check out our website: http://www.gabtraders.com/ Join if you like. Trey <tmo...@my-deja.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: 8tlqee$3c2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com... [ quoted text not captured ]

On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Trey wrote: <Shock Troops> > Sounds like fun, eh? Yeah. My only gripe with it, flavour-wise, is that it requires Sabbat titles. I would have preferred it just to require a title, of any sort. Clan Novel: Lasombra certainly shows the Camarilla doing exactly this. > Assuming no one pounds the little weenies. And herein lies the problem. I'm also told rumours of an interesting anti-weenie-vote that's around. I don't know if that's wishful thinking, real, something that was dropped but a playtester thought was still in and got spread round or what. But it's mostly defensive, certainly, which is cool. -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D "And all the while I'm thinking things that I can never share with him. I'm a bundle of confusion, yet it has a strange appeal. Did it all begin with him and the way he makes me feel?"

On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 hamd...@my-deja.com wrote: > I think to that list you need to add "Covenant of Blood", or even > better "Haven Uncovered"! Well, Covenant is kind of better if you can guarantee playing against the Cammies..... This will make for interesting Haven Uncovered Breed-and-Rush decks. *salivates* [ quoted text not captured ]

On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, pallando wrote: > i say only thaumaturgy and cryptic mission. Anyone know if the Society of Leopold made it back in? I would've thought it was wanted, but whether they decided to put it back in I've no idea. Also see, the obtenebtration card that can duplicate the essence of the Cryptic Mission deck. Interesting. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <ZCxL5.129065$mL4.6...@news.chello.at>, "pallando" <pall...@gmx.at> wrote: > i say only thaumaturgy and cryptic mission. > > pallando > Psychic Veil should have potential to be very useful too, like when trying to commit diableries. After your weenies die (if they do) you could also play that vote card thatmakes your predator lose pool for every burnt vamp in ur ash heap (forgot the name of the card right now). Consangineous boon would also be really good (as well as Autarkis Persecution mentioned before but then other people benefit too). My question is what clan these minions are considered to be since the card is a master? What if you have several Cardinals out etc to fulfil the requirement of the Master cards and they're from different clans? If you may choose clan, you could make them Panders and Legacy of Pander would be quite good. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8tmbi7$g1a$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] ops nopticed they're clanless. You could play Revelation of the Sire then. Making them Lasombras would work too to make Power Structure even better. [ quoted text not captured ]

> ops nopticed they're clanless. You could play Revelation of the Sire > then. Making them Lasombras would work too to make Power Structure even > better. No. Revelation of the Sire only works against Caitiff, not Clanless Sabbat (which is essentially what the shock troops are). DH [ quoted text not captured ]

"James Coupe" <jr...@cam.ac.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:Pine.SOL.4.21.001031...@red.csi.cam.ac.uk... [snip] > I'm also told rumours of an interesting anti-weenie-vote that's around. I > don't know if that's wishful thinking, real, something that was dropped > but a playtester thought was still in and got spread round or what. The Rumour Mill may not always be the most reliable source of information, but this one is for real (believe me - I played a pre-SW weenie deck of mine yesterday and found myself on the business end of the new card). Since I do not have an actual copy of the card, here from the top of my head: Rabble Razing Political Action. +1 stealth, worth 1 vote. If referendum is successful, all vamps with capacity <4 burn 1 blood. ...about two thirds of my little ones had to hunt the turn after my predator used that... -- Hardy Range "Gib mir wieder etwas Schönes, zieh mich aus dem Meer." The Sisters of Mercy, Marian hardy...@gmx.de

James Coupe <jr...@cam.ac.uk> wrote in message news:Pine.SOL.4.21.001031...@red.csi.cam.ac.uk... > On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Trey wrote: > I'm also told rumours of an interesting anti-weenie-vote that's around. I > don't know if that's wishful thinking, real, something that was dropped > but a playtester thought was still in and got spread round or what. > > But it's mostly defensive, certainly, which is cool. Rabble Razing i think it was called and it is in I saw it on Saturday ! Targets vamps below 4cap and makes each burn a blood. Rob PS you coming this Sat back to sunny Portsmouth ? [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <WZyL5.1687$ZA5....@news.dircon.co.uk>, "shsoton" <shs...@dircon.co.uk> wrote: > > James Coupe <jr...@cam.ac.uk> wrote in message > news:Pine.SOL.4.21.001031...@red.csi.cam.ac.uk... > > On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Trey wrote: > > > I'm also told rumours of an interesting anti-weenie-vote that's around. I > > don't know if that's wishful thinking, real, something that was dropped > > but a playtester thought was still in and got spread round or what. > > > > But it's mostly defensive, certainly, which is cool. > > Rabble Razing i think it was called and it is in I saw it on Saturday ! > Targets vamps below 4cap and makes each burn a blood. > > Rob > > PS you coming this Sat back to sunny Portsmouth ? What does it require? Title, capacity?? Damn that plus Summon the Abyss, sheeesh. Tim > > > > -- > > James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D > > "And all the while I'm thinking things that I can never share with him. > > I'm a bundle of confusion, yet it has a strange appeal. Did it all begin > > with him and the way he makes me feel?" > > > > -- PROPHECY OF GEHENNA: On The First Day Of Gehenna The Shrieking Wind Shall Be Silent And When A Black Sun Hangs From A Somber Sky Caine's Sleeping Children Shall Once Again Arise [ quoted text not captured ]

On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 14:04:01 GMT, Tim Eijpe <t_e...@my-deja.com> said: Tim> What does it require? Title, capacity?? Damn that plus Summon the Abyss, Tim> sheeesh. As far as I recall, Rabble Razing is a general vote (no special requirements). I think it's in one of the SW preconstructed starters. Nice to have some ammo against weenie hordes... <goes off to design a Rabble Razing / Summon the Abyss / Strained Vitae Supply weenie killer deck> //Petri

On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:48:24 GMT, cantila <rogc...@student.luth.se> wrote: >In article <ZCxL5.129065$mL4.6...@news.chello.at>, > "pallando" <pall...@gmx.at> wrote: >> i say only thaumaturgy and cryptic mission. >> >> pallando >> > >Psychic Veil should have potential to be very useful too, like when >trying to commit diableries. After your weenies die (if they do) you With -1 stealth on all actions, they're not likely to survive very long. Especially not having to take a hunt action first. >could also play that vote card thatmakes your predator lose pool for >every burnt vamp in ur ash heap (forgot the name of the card right Except your weenies will be in torpor, not in your ash heap. >now). Consangineous boon would also be really good (as well as Autarkis Except the weenies are clanless, so Boon is not useful. >Persecution mentioned before but then other people benefit too). > >My question is what clan these minions are considered to be since the If you read the card text, it says "CLANLESS SABBAT VAMPIRES." >card is a master? What if you have several Cardinals out etc to fulfil >the requirement of the Master cards and they're from different clans? > >If you may choose clan, you could make them Panders and Legacy of >Pander would be quite good. -- Derek "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." - C. Darwin, 1871

On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:51:28 GMT, cantila <rogc...@student.luth.se> wrote: >ops nopticed they're clanless. You could play Revelation of the Sire >then. Making them Lasombras would work too to make Power Structure even >better. They're not Caitiff, they're clanless. There's a difference. [ quoted text not captured ]

Petri Wessman <or...@termiitti.akumiitti.fi> wrote: > I am given to understand that this card was originally called "Cannon > Fodder" in the playtest phase, and was voted "card most likely to be > broken" by the local playtesters :) True. We didn't like Cannon Fodder either. The original allowed you to go through your hand, ash heap and library for master cards. Shock Troops allows only your hand to contribute. Much, much better. A number of cards, this being one of them, were severely broken as originally suggested. Two others that we were happy to see hadn't been printed as we first saw them were Oubliette and Pier 13. There was a few more, but I can't think of them off the top of my head. All in all, I'm _very_ pleased with the final product of Sabbat War and I'd like to thank LSJ and the rest of the playtesters for a job well done. Regards, Noal McDonald Prince of Metro Detroit -- "I was probably pretty young, when I realised that I had come from what you might call a family, a clan, a race, maybe even a species, of pure sons of bitches." --Faulkner, "The Mansion" [ quoted text not captured ]

Trey wrote: > People have posted some very cool new cards from Sabbat War, so here's > the one that had me saying "Woah!" until I got to the last line. > > Shock Troops > (a master card) > Requires a ready Archbishop or Cardinal > X cost > Put X Master: Discipline cards from your hand into play. These cards > represent clanless Sabbat vampires of 1 capacity with those respective > Disciplines and do not count as Master: Discipline cards while in play. > These vampires are not unique, must hunt the turn they are created, > have -1 stealth on all actions and cannot attempt bleeds or political > actions. > > Sounds like fun, eh? How about dropping 6 Auspex masters down and > telepathic countering every bleed 6 times at inferior? Or, just drop 6 > of anything, and then play Tribute to the master the next turn? Just > recovered your cost, and if you have another Tribute next turn, you > gain 6. Assuming no one pounds the little weenies. The coolest thing > might be to drop 2 or 3 Dominate down, and then upgrade them to > superior dominate as you can, so that you can redirect bleeds. How about 2 or 3 Obtenebration which are later upgraded to superior? Then "Blanket of Night" your little brains out. And remember, kiddies, this need not be played by a Lasombra deck. (Though I guess it would have to be a Sabbat deck, at least in part...) Fred

> > As far as I recall, Rabble Razing is a general vote (no special > requirements). I think it's in one of the SW preconstructed starters. It's in the !Ventrue preconstructed.... Adam [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8tm5jr$bsm$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, hamd...@my-deja.com wrote: > In article <7xlmv52...@termiitti.akumiitti.fi>, > Petri Wessman <or...@termiitti.akumiitti.fi> wrote: > > On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 06:56:15 GMT, Trey <tmo...@my-deja.com> said: > > > > [about Shock Troops] > > Trey> Hmm, anyway, I'm sure more devious minds than mine will think > up evil > > Trey> uses for this card... > > > > Two words: "potence", "diablerie". > > I think to that list you need to add "Covenant of Blood", or even > better "Haven Uncovered"! Does Covenant work this way? The Shock Troops are 'clanless Sabbat' vampires, and Covenant requires 'Non-Camarilla'. I can't tell from the rules/rulings whether 'Non-Camarilla' means Independent only (i.e. only those vampires whose card says that they are Non-Camarilla) or means not Camarilla (i.e. Independent _and_ Sabbat). Just wonderin', Alex [ quoted text not captured ]

alex.br...@clearband.com wrote: > I can't tell from the rules/rulings whether 'Non-Camarilla' means > Independent only (i.e. only those vampires whose card says that > they are Non-Camarilla) or means not Camarilla (i.e. Independent > _and_ Sabbat). Rulebook, section 10: 'Sabbat vampires are "Non-Camarilla"' -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, cantila wrote: > now). Consangineous boon would also be really good (as well as Autarkis > Persecution mentioned before but then other people benefit too). They're clanless, so it won't help. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Hardy Range wrote: > Rabble Razing > Political Action. +1 stealth, worth 1 vote. > If referendum is successful, all vamps with capacity <4 burn 1 blood. > > ...about two thirds of my little ones had to hunt the turn after my predator > used that... Ah, excellent. A nice way to combat, without killing, the weenie decks. I commend Gird Minions to you all. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Derek Ray wrote: > On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:51:28 GMT, cantila <rogc...@student.luth.se> > wrote: > > >ops nopticed they're clanless. You could play Revelation of the Sire > >then. Making them Lasombras would work too to make Power Structure even > >better. > > They're not Caitiff, they're clanless. There's a difference. There may well be, but you have not pointed it out yet. Caitiff are clanless. Up until this point, all clanless vampires have been Caitiff, and I was under the impression that clanlessness was their sole defining characteristic. That they are Sabbat does not necessarily prove they are not Caitiff. Caitiff are Camarilla by default, not by definition. Still, I'm assuming there is a difference, only because I believe that otherwise it would have said "Sabbat Caitiff" just to be clear. -- John Whelan

On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, John Whelan wrote: > > > On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Derek Ray wrote: > > > On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:51:28 GMT, cantila <rogc...@student.luth.se> > > wrote: > > > > >ops nopticed they're clanless. You could play Revelation of the Sire > > >then. Making them Lasombras would work too to make Power Structure even > > >better. > > > > They're not Caitiff, they're clanless. There's a difference. > > There may well be, but you have not pointed it out yet. Caitiff are > clanless. Indeed. Gangrel are Camarilla and so are Toreador. Caitiff => Clanless We do not, yet, have a situation where Caitiff <=> Clanless [ quoted text not captured ]

On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 14:36:41 -0500, John Whelan <jbwh...@amanda.dorsai.org> wrote: > > >On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Derek Ray wrote: > >> On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:51:28 GMT, cantila <rogc...@student.luth.se> >> wrote: >> >> >ops nopticed they're clanless. You could play Revelation of the Sire >> >then. Making them Lasombras would work too to make Power Structure even >> >better. >> >> They're not Caitiff, they're clanless. There's a difference. > >There may well be, but you have not pointed it out yet. Caitiff are >clanless. Up until this point, all clanless vampires have been Caitiff, >and I was under the impression that clanlessness was their sole defining >characteristic. That they are Sabbat does not necessarily prove they are >not Caitiff. Caitiff are Camarilla by default, not by definition. This is the old "My dog has four legs, all cats have four legs, therefore my dog is a cat" argument, John. Why waste time with nit-picking on this scale? Card text on Shock Troops does not contain the word "Caitiff". Card text on Revelation of the Sire says "Choose a Caitiff who is younger than the acting vampire." This should be enough for most people. BUT, let's go ahead and wade through it for awhile. With regard to Caitiff, ...the rulebook states only: "One of the major sects is the Camarilla, which is composed of the seven clans found in the base set (and includes the Caitiff, who are technically clanless)" ...and the rulings state only: "Pander is a clan (while Caitiff still is not). [Sabbat]" So Caitiff are clanless Camarilla vampires, while Shock Troops, per card text, produces clanless Sabbat vampires. Simple. [ quoted text not captured ]

John Whelan wrote: > On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Derek Ray wrote: > > They're not Caitiff, they're clanless. There's a difference. > > There may well be, but you have not pointed it out yet. Caitiff are > clanless. Up until this point, all clanless vampires have been Caitiff, > and I was under the impression that clanlessness was their sole defining > characteristic. That they are Sabbat does not necessarily prove they are Caitiff's sole defining characteristic is being Caitiff. Like Tzimisce's sole defining characterstic (in this card game). If another vampire, even a Camarilla one, becomes clanless, there's no mechanism forcing it to become a Caitiff. > not Caitiff. Caitiff are Camarilla by default, not by definition. But clanless does not mean "Caitiff" by definition. > Still, I'm assuming there is a difference, only because I believe that > otherwise it would have said "Sabbat Caitiff" just to be clear. There's a difference. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. [ quoted text not captured ]

>> Shock Troops >> (a master card) >> Requires a ready Archbishop or Cardinal >> X cost >> Put X Master: Discipline cards from your hand into play. These cards >> represent clanless Sabbat vampires of 1 capacity with those respective >> Disciplines and do not count as Master: Discipline cards while in >play. >> These vampires are not unique, must hunt the turn they are created, >> have -1 stealth on all actions and cannot attempt bleeds or political >> actions. > >My god, this is just waiting to be broken! Although they can't attempt >political actions, they can sure can count towards them - e.g. Get the >Parthenon in play, play Shock Troops, pay 7 pool for 7 auspex masters >to become vamps, play a second copy of the Shock Troops, pay 7 pool for >another 7 masters, then play autarkis persicution (or whatever >that "gain a pool for each minion you control" vote is) to gain 14+ >pool back! Play the vote again for more! Unlikely to get the card draw >easily, but that "Storage Matrix" card someone mentioned the other day >is BOUND to help! <snip> You can only play as many discipline cards that you have in your hand. So unless you are loaded up with discipline cards in your deck, I do not see your example being too likely to occur....and if it does, 14 discipline cards, 2 shock troops, and the parthenon is a lot of master cards, plus you would probably put in more shock troops to make it more probable to get the cards out in the first place. Plus I would hate to think what sudden reversals will do to someone loading up to build the deck around that card <eg> Eric Nawrotzki Pontifex of New Jersey "Live Now. Make Now the most precious time. Now will never come again."

>My question is what clan these minions are considered to be since the >card is a master? What if you have several Cardinals out etc to fulfil >the requirement of the Master cards and they're from different clans? > >If you may choose clan, you could make them Panders and Legacy of >Pander would be quite good. > > they are clanless. They are not Panders which are considered a clan. They are merely Sabbat clanless. [ quoted text not captured ]

> >could also play that vote card thatmakes your predator lose pool for > >every burnt vamp in ur ash heap (forgot the name of the card right > > Except your weenies will be in torpor, not in your ash heap. If you do diablerie they'll probably be burnt in the Blood Hunt. Else you can use Daring the Dawn with your actions and get your vamp burnt on purpose. > > >now). Consangineous boon would also be really good (as well as Autarkis > > Except the weenies are clanless, so Boon is not useful. > > >Persecution mentioned before but then other people benefit too). > > > >My question is what clan these minions are considered to be since the > > If you read the card text, it says "CLANLESS SABBAT VAMPIRES." Yeah I noticed and corrected it right after. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:55:44 GMT, cantila <rogc...@student.luth.se> wrote: > >> >could also play that vote card thatmakes your predator lose pool for >> >every burnt vamp in ur ash heap (forgot the name of the card right >> >> Except your weenies will be in torpor, not in your ash heap. > >If you do diablerie they'll probably be burnt in the Blood Hunt. Else >you can use Daring the Dawn with your actions and get your vamp burnt >on purpose. For the first idea: ok, so you munch one vampire and get one vampire in your ash heap. Now you call Mark of the Damned and do one pool damage to your predator. You need to have about 5 minions in your ash heap to really beat on your predator, so you have to munch five vampires. How are you planning on getting five vampires in torpor? For the second: to use Daring the Dawn, your minions need to be Fortitude skill cards. If you successfully hunt with DtD, you can't burn. They cannot bleed nor call votes, so about the only useful thing they can do to get burned is Rush people with DtD, play Trap/Undead Persistence, and then poof themselves. Four-card combo for one action, and this is assuming you both have enough skill-card masters in hand to get a sufficient # of guys out, AND that somehow they will take 2 points of damage in the combat resulting from the Rush, which S:CE or a press to end pretty well negates. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <ojiuvsof1rrp8cdt1...@4ax.com>, Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:55:44 GMT, cantila <rogc...@student.luth.se> > wrote: > > > > >> >could also play that vote card thatmakes your predator lose pool for > >> >every burnt vamp in ur ash heap (forgot the name of the card right > >> > >> Except your weenies will be in torpor, not in your ash heap. > > > >If you do diablerie they'll probably be burnt in the Blood Hunt. Else > >you can use Daring the Dawn with your actions and get your vamp burnt > >on purpose. > > For the first idea: ok, so you munch one vampire and get one vampire > in your ash heap. Now you call Mark of the Damned and do one pool > damage to your predator. You need to have about 5 minions in your ash > heap to really beat on your predator, so you have to munch five > vampires. How are you planning on getting five vampires in torpor? Here's the idea: Play Shock Troops and get Fortitude skill card on them. If you successfully hunt you can do Daring the Dawn ops and use Haven with them to rush people. If you get hit by one dmg your vamp is going to get burned due to the dmg from Daring the Dawn, So you don't need any cards other than one Haven and the Darings. You can use Mob Connections if you think they'll dodge as their strike or something. Another variant could be to play THA skill cards and use burst of sunlight when they're blocked on their hunt actions if you think people are going to block your minions as they hunt. After either of this, play Mark of the Damned a few times and vote Dramatic Upheaval :) > > For the second: to use Daring the Dawn, your minions need to be > Fortitude skill cards. If you successfully hunt with DtD, you can't > burn. They cannot bleed nor call votes, so about the only useful > thing they can do to get burned is Rush people with DtD, play > Trap/Undead Persistence, and then poof themselves. Four-card combo > for one action, and this is assuming you both have enough skill-card > masters in hand to get a sufficient # of guys out, AND that somehow > they will take 2 points of damage in the combat resulting from the > Rush, which S:CE or a press to end pretty well negates. > > -- Derek > > "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." > - C. Darwin, 1871 > [ quoted text not captured ]

cantila <rogc...@student.luth.se> wrote in message news:8tnr23$qat$1...@nnrp1.deja.com... > In article <ojiuvsof1rrp8cdt1...@4ax.com>, > Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:55:44 GMT, cantila <rogc...@student.luth.se> > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> >could also play that vote card thatmakes your predator lose pool > for > > >> >every burnt vamp in ur ash heap (forgot the name of the card right I may be in error, but I would think that Shock Troops pseudovamps would end up in your ash heap as Master cards, not vampires, and thus would not trigger Mark of the Damned. They would only be vampires while in play, much like locquipment is not a location while in your ash heap and is not equipment while in play.

> > > >> >could also play that vote card thatmakes your predator lose pool > > for > > > >> >every burnt vamp in ur ash heap (forgot the name of the card right > > I may be in error, but I would think that Shock Troops pseudovamps would end > up in your ash heap as Master cards, not vampires, and thus would not > trigger Mark of the Damned. They would only be vampires while in play, much > like locquipment is not a location while in your ash heap and is not > equipment while in play. Hmm could be true, could we get na answer from LSJ on this? [ quoted text not captured ]

"Mark & Kathy ShaneWood" <shan...@tcinternet.net> wrote: > I would think that Shock Troops pseudovamps would end > up in your ash heap as Master cards, not vampires, and thus would not > trigger Mark of the Damned. They would only be vampires while in > play, much like locquipment is not a location while in your ash heap > and is not equipment while in play. Correct. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

> Shock Troops > (a master card) > Requires a ready Archbishop or Cardinal > X cost > Put X Master: Discipline cards from your hand into play. These cards > represent clanless Sabbat vampires of 1 capacity with those respective > Disciplines and do not count as Master: Discipline cards while in play. > These vampires are not unique, must hunt the turn they are created, > have -1 stealth on all actions and cannot attempt bleeds or political > actions. The only problem with this card is that it is essentially a waste of pool. They have to hunt first off at -1 stealth? Who would *not* block them? So all your new weenies are off to Torporland. I doubt I'll ever play with this card. Sorrow --- "Are they dead?" - Pugsly "Does it matter?" - Wednesday

On Thu, 2 Nov 2000, Sorrow wrote: > > Put X Master: Discipline cards from your hand into play. These cards > > represent clanless Sabbat vampires of 1 capacity with those respective > > Disciplines and do not count as Master: Discipline cards while in play. > > These vampires are not unique, must hunt the turn they are created, > > have -1 stealth on all actions and cannot attempt bleeds or political > > actions. > > The only problem with this card is that it is essentially a waste of > pool. They have to hunt first off at -1 stealth? Who would *not* > block them? So all your new weenies are off to Torporland. > I doubt I'll ever play with this card. If you're playing with one of the obfuscate weenie decks I once saw Justin Fang play with (lots of Night Moves and Spying Missions, Embrace etc.), it'd work. Lots of stealth available to avoid the problems. Also, in a combat deck. I put out three Potence weenies. Okay, you *can* block them, sure. Do you want to? I'm just gonna hit you with Torn Signpost, Increased Strength and an Undead Strength. Or Presence deck, which plays Majesty, so sure, block me, but then I get through with my other vampires while you're tapped. And I play Gird Minions next time round, maybe? 2 masters, some discipline cards and x+1 pool for x minions isn't that bad. With a Parthenon, you could even put a blood on them the turn they're created. Okay, so they have to hunt, but you could use Protean claws, or other blood costs in combat to take down another vampire. It's doable, certainly. You just have to think your way around the problem or view it as an opportunity. However, the card isn't the be-all and end-all, isn't overly powerful and is actually quite useful, I think. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <Pine.SOL.4.21.00110...@orange.csi.cam.ac.uk>, James Coupe <jr...@cam.ac.uk> wrote: >> > Put X Master: Discipline cards from your hand into play. These cards >> > represent clanless Sabbat vampires of 1 capacity with those respective >> > Disciplines and do not count as Master: Discipline cards while in play. >> > These vampires are not unique, must hunt the turn they are created, >> > have -1 stealth on all actions and cannot attempt bleeds or political >> > actions. >If you're playing with one of the obfuscate weenie decks I once saw Justin >Fang play with (lots of Night Moves and Spying Missions, Embrace etc.), >it'd work. Lots of stealth available to avoid the problems. "cannot attempt bleeds" >Also, in a combat deck. I put out three Potence weenies. Okay, you *can* >block them, sure. Do you want to? I'm just gonna hit you with Torn >Signpost, Increased Strength and an Undead Strength. Yeah. I'm amused by the Haven Uncovered/Mark of Damnation idea myself, though it's probably too unwieldy to work well.

> Although they can't attempt > political actions, they can sure can count towards them - e.g. Get the > Parthenon in play, play Shock Troops, pay 7 pool for 7 auspex masters > to become vamps, play a second copy of the Shock Troops, pay 7 pool for > another 7 masters I think you've got something there. A deck with 50-80% masters might be able to bloat with Shock Troops, Discipline masters, Tribute and Parthenon. Add some anarch revolt and delaying tactics and you can also attack the rest of the table. Atonement would kill you, but that's only one card. I'll be sure to keep an anarchist uprising in every deck (although even before this card came out, with all the weenies around, I've tried to do this). I also have to commend Scott on the card designs. Cannon Fodder looked seriously broken in the test phase but the final card seems limited enough that in order to abuse it, you need to take a hit on your deck (a deck with 50-80% masters will clearly have it's weaknesses). [ quoted text not captured ]

Question: How are cards replaced with Shock Troops? Do all the Master Disp cards have to be in your hand as you play it? Or can you draw as you put down cards? Can I play Shock Troops... 1, 2 potence weenies and <draw, draw, draw> 3, 4 potence weenies? [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8tvb5b$1kl$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, bswai...@my-deja.com wrote: > > > Question: How are cards replaced with Shock Troops? Do all the Master > Disp cards have to be in your hand as you play it? Or can you draw as > you put down cards? In your hand, per card text. > Can I play Shock Troops... 1, 2 potence weenies and <draw, draw, draw> > 3, 4 potence weenies? No, because 'x' is set when you play the card (before you replace the shock, and certainly before you start putting the discipline cards in play). A: Play Shock Troops, choose 'x', "target" x discipline cards in your hand. B: Pay X pool, replace Shock Troops, execute effect of card. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

On 2 Nov 2000, Justin Fang wrote: > >If you're playing with one of the obfuscate weenie decks I once saw Justin > >Fang play with (lots of Night Moves and Spying Missions, Embrace etc.), > >it'd work. Lots of stealth available to avoid the problems. > > "cannot attempt bleeds" True, but you've got a lot of stealth around - these don't have to be the bleeders, these can be the blocking fodder that you have knocking around rather than anything else. Or throw another skill card on them and have them breed some more babies, who *don't* have any restrictions. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Thu, 2 Nov 2000 c34m...@my-deja.com wrote: > I think you've got something there. A deck with 50-80% masters might > be able to bloat with Shock Troops, Discipline masters, Tribute and > Parthenon. Add a few of the Storage Annex card. Hold your Shock Troops or your disciplines until you need them, swap them all in, BANG. [ quoted text not captured ]