LSJ: clarifications over hand strikes and potence

my playgroup are making life hard for my brujah deck over the use and wording of Immortal Grapple. immortal grapple allows only hand strikes for the round. undead strength, for example, says "Strike: use your hand or melee weapon at +1 damage" (or almost identical words)(inferior), and i would maintain that this means that the vampire does a hand strike with +1 hand damage (if not using a weapon), and so can be used with IG. they say (or at least one does) that it is a potence strike card, and so is not a hand strike, so cannot be used with IG. which is it? also, if it is a hand strike, can it be used with increased strength, as then it is a hand strike, and hand strikes in general do not require potence? is it the case that something like undead strength counts as a "potence hand strike", a strike that counts as a hand strike for the purposes of IG, and a strike that requires potence for IS? thanks, laorch --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- ---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---

Laroch wrote: >>my playgroup are making life hard for my brujah deck over the use and wording of Immortal Grapple. immortal grapple allows only hand strikes for the round. undead strength, for example, says "Strike: use your hand or melee weapon at +1 damage" (or almost identical words)(inferior), and i would maintain that this means that the vampire does a hand strike with +1 hand damage (if not using a weapon), and so can be used with IG. they say (or at least one does) that it is a potence strike card, and so is not a hand strike, so cannot be used with IG. which is it?>> Most Potence cards are, indeed, hand strikes. Undead Strength, Torn Signpost, Fists of Death all can be used with IG. Undead Strength says "Strike: Use you hand or...", and as such, is a hand strike (unless it is used with a weapon). TS and FoD simply give your vampire better hand damage. Mighty Grapple, Growing Fury, and Burning Wrath are also hand strikes, and as such, can be used with IG. If you play TS, FoD, and Strike with US, you will hit someone for 7 hand damage, even while Immortally Grappled. Weapons, on the other hand, are not hand strikes or hand damage. Even though a weapon says "Strike: +1 hand damage" or whatever, it is a weapon strike, not a hand strike, and weapon damage and not hand damage. >>also, if it is a hand strike, can it be used with increased strength, as then it is a hand strike, and hand strikes in general do not require potence?>> With Increased Strength, you need to play a Potence Strike card to gain the benefit from the IS. Thus, if you play IS (at superior) and use a basic hand strike, you hit for 1, but if you use Undead Strength, you will hit for 5. Peter D Bakija PD...@aol.com "Sigfreid?" "Roy?" "One of the tigers?" -Willow

[ quoted text not captured ] Correct. The official definition of what constitutes a "hand strike" is: * Hand Strike: any non-ranged, non-weapon strike that deals damage based on the striking minion's hand damage, or any minion's non-ranged damage-dealing innate strike. > > also, if it is a hand strike, can it be used with > > increased strength, as then it is a hand strike, and > > hand strikes in general do not require potence? > > With Increased Strength, you need to play a Potence Strike > card to gain the benefit from the IS. Thus, if you play IS > (at superior) and use a basic hand strike, you hit for 1, > but if you use Undead Strength, you will hit for 5. Correct. -- LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html [ quoted text not captured ]