[LSJ] 1001 mask of thousand faces questions

Situation A Vamp A bleeds > block attempted > Vamp B plays Mask of T. Can Vamp A attempt to bleed again? Situation B As above, but Vamp B gets blocked. Vamp B plays change of target. Can Vamp B attempt to Bleed? Situation C Vamp A Bleeds > Vamp A plays lost in crowds > Vamp B plays Mask > Vamp B plays a lost in crowd. Is that possible? and why? Situation D Vamp A has a Aching Beaty and perfoms an action > block attempt > Vamp B with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same methuselah. How many pool does he lose? Situation E Vamp A has a Aching Beaty and perfoms an action > block attempt > Vamp B with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same methuselah > Vamp C with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same methuselah > Vamp A with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > Block attempt by same methuselah with succes. How many pool does this methuselah lose? Situation F I go and grab a beer during my predators turn. Am I allowed to get food aswell? greetz and weedz oortje

On 8 Nov 2003 11:27:09 -0800, oortj...@hotmail.com (Oortje4ever) wrote: >Situation A > >Vamp A bleeds > block attempted > Vamp B plays Mask of T. >Can Vamp A attempt to bleed again? Would say no. > >Situation B > >As above, but Vamp B gets blocked. Vamp B plays change of target. >Can Vamp B attempt to Bleed? Nope, card text of Change of Target >Situation C > >Vamp A Bleeds > Vamp A plays lost in crowds > Vamp B plays Mask > Vamp >B plays a lost in crowd. >Is that possible? and why? Nope, no more then 1 of the same modifier per action. > >Situation D > >Vamp A has a Aching Beaty and perfoms an action > block attempt > Vamp >B with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same methuselah. >How many pool does he lose? 2 > >Situation E > >Vamp A has a Aching Beaty and perfoms an action > block attempt > Vamp >B with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same methuselah >> Vamp C with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same >methuselah > Vamp A with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > Block attempt >by same methuselah with succes. >How many pool does this methuselah lose? 3. the 4th is not counted since it's the same vamp allready paid for. > >Situation F > >I go and grab a beer during my predators turn. >Am I allowed to get food aswell? > Beer is a meal so no. Read Guisness label text :p > > >greetz and weedz >oortje

Oortje4ever wrote: Google is your friend! > Situation A > > Vamp A bleeds > block attempted > Vamp B plays Mask of T. > Can Vamp A attempt to bleed again? Yes. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:LSJ+mask+of+1000+faces+nra&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=3BD5481E.8F8FEDDF%40white-wolf.com&rnum=2 > Situation B > > As above, but Vamp B gets blocked. Vamp B plays change of target. > Can Vamp B attempt to Bleed? No. (Card text on change of target) > Situation C > > Vamp A Bleeds > Vamp A plays lost in crowds > Vamp B plays Mask > Vamp > B plays a lost in crowd. > Is that possible? and why? Yes. A and B are two distinct minions. Note though that if A plays LiC at superior, B must have superior OBF to mask the action. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=3B658D1E.F6B9FD30%40white-wolf.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dauthor:LSJ%2Bmask%2Bof%2B1000%2Bfaces%2Blost%2Bin%2Bcrowds%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26selm%3D3B658D1E.F6B9FD30%2540white-wolf.com%26rnum%3D2 http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:LSJ+mask+of+1000+faces+lost+in+crowds&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=3B658D1E.F6B9FD30%40white-wolf.com&rnum=2 > Situation D > > Vamp A has a Aching Beaty and perfoms an action > block attempt > Vamp > B with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same methuselah. > How many pool does he lose? B can't mask once A's Aching Beauty has been applied. Even though B has an Aching Beauty, it's not the _same_ Aching Beauty. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=3ECA4342.5020305%40white-wolf.com > Situation E > > Vamp A has a Aching Beaty and perfoms an action > block attempt > Vamp > B with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same methuselah > >>Vamp C with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same > > methuselah > Vamp A with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > Block attempt > by same methuselah with succes. > How many pool does this methuselah lose? Irrelevant. > Situation F > > I go and grab a beer during my predators turn. > Am I allowed to get food aswell? Only if you get some for me. --Colin McGuigan

Pepijn <ka...@xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<7ghqqv4chlmef53po...@4ax.com>... > On 8 Nov 2003 11:27:09 -0800, oortj...@hotmail.com (Oortje4ever) > wrote: > > >Situation A > > > >Vamp A bleeds > block attempted > Vamp B plays Mask of T. > >Can Vamp A attempt to bleed again? > > Would say no. I'm not sure since the bleed action of vamp A never ocured per Mask card text? so I'd say yes (then again I'm probably mistaking). > > > >Situation B > > > >As above, but Vamp B gets blocked. Vamp B plays change of target. > >Can Vamp B attempt to Bleed? > > Nope, card text of Change of Target Agree. > >Situation C > > > >Vamp A Bleeds > Vamp A plays lost in crowds > Vamp B plays Mask > Vamp > >B plays a lost in crowd. > >Is that possible? and why? > > Nope, no more then 1 of the same modifier per action. > That's only stated on all the Dominate action modifiers (see Jyhad card text on Conditioning Threats and Bonding) not on Obf Ser etc. action mods. > >Situation D > > > >Vamp A has a Aching Beaty and perfoms an action > block attempt > Vamp > >B with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same methuselah. > >How many pool does he lose? > > 2 Card text on AB. Aching Beauty [Jyhad:U, VTES:U, CE:U] Cardtype: Master Clan: Toreador Cost: 2 pool Master. Put this card on a Toreador. If this Toreador is blocked, the controller of the blocking minion burns 1 pool (before combat occurs). CoT says only usuable when you're blocked. > > > >Situation E > > > >Vamp A has a Aching Beaty and perfoms an action > block attempt > Vamp > >B with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same methuselah > >> Vamp C with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same > >methuselah > Vamp A with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > Block attempt > >by same methuselah with succes. > >How many pool does this methuselah lose? > > 3. the 4th is not counted since it's the same vamp allready paid for. I'd still say 4 since there's no restriction on how many pool a player can lose because of AB but Pepijn could be right, he'd better know since he's the AB man (remembers the Belgium EC :P). > >Situation F > > > >I go and grab a beer during my predators turn. > >Am I allowed to get food aswell? > > Only if you Freak Drive or have a Ruthor's Hand since you only can perform one action per turn (tapping Rules). > Beer is a meal so no. Read Guisness label text :p > > > > > >greetz and weedz > >oortje Emile "Beer equals two pieces of brown bread" "We are an ape with a symbiotic relation to a mushroom"

On 8 Nov 2003 15:49:07 -0800, ebo...@hotmail.com (Emile Bosman) wrote: >I'd still say 4 since there's no restriction on how many pool a player >can lose because of AB but Pepijn could be right, he'd better know >since he's the AB man (remembers the Belgium EC :P). Yeah, and you remember I normally stack my Aching beauties as well :) Got your pool down considrable allthough you had a permanent 5 pool gain a turn ;) What was it again? 8 pool a aturn untill you toporized any minion I had? :p Not bad for torries I would say

Colin McGuigan wrote: > Oortje4ever wrote: > > Google is your friend! Correct. >> Situation A >> Vamp A bleeds > block attempted > Vamp B plays Mask of T. >> Can Vamp A attempt to bleed again? > > Yes. > http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:LSJ+mask+of+1000+faces+nra&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=3BD5481E.8F8FEDDF%40white-wolf.com&rnum=2 Correct. >> Situation B >> As above, but Vamp B gets blocked. Vamp B plays change of target. >> Can Vamp B attempt to Bleed? > > No. > (Card text on change of target) Correct. Also restricted by the rules on bleeding, but card text suffices. >> Situation C >> Vamp A Bleeds > Vamp A plays lost in crowds > Vamp B plays Mask > Vamp >> B plays a lost in crowd. >> Is that possible? and why? > > Yes. A and B are two distinct minions. Note though that if A plays LiC > at superior, B must have superior OBF to mask the action. > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=3B658D1E.F6B9FD30%40white-wolf.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dauthor:LSJ%2Bmask%2Bof%2B1000%2Bfaces%2Blost%2Bin%2Bcrowds%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26selm%3D3B658D1E.F6B9FD30%2540white-wolf.com%26rnum%3D2 > http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:LSJ+mask+of+1000+faces+lost+in+crowds&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=3B658D1E.F6B9FD30%40white-wolf.com&rnum=2 Correct. The restriction on playing action modifiers is per minion. >> Situation D >> Vamp A has a Aching Beaty and perfoms an action > block attempt > Vamp >> B with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same methuselah. >> How many pool does he lose? > > B can't mask once A's Aching Beauty has been applied. Even though B has > an Aching Beauty, it's not the _same_ Aching Beauty. > > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=3ECA4342.5020305%40white-wolf.com Correct. >> Situation E >> Vamp A has a Aching Beaty and perfoms an action > block attempt > Vamp >> B with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same methuselah >>> Vamp C with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same >> methuselah > Vamp A with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > Block attempt >> by same methuselah with succes. >> How many pool does this methuselah lose? > > Irrelevant. Correct. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

So this means that is vamp A bleeds with a laptop, vamp B with laptop can't take over the action with mask, or am I wrong?

Mats Ellingsen wrote: > So this means that is vamp A bleeds with a laptop, vamp B with laptop > can't take over the action with mask, or am I wrong? Wrong. Vamp B could not take over the action if the laptop has been used -- of course, the laptop is only "used" if the bleed is successful, at which point, you can't mask the action anyway, because it's over. Vamp B would not get the +1 bleed from Vamp A's laptop, though. (Eg: Normal can mask for Arika, even though Arika has +2 bleed. Normal does not get the +2 bleed, though.) Bringing this back to Aching Beauty: If Vamp A has an Aching Beauty, Vamp B can still mask the action (assuming all the normal conditions are met), up until either... 1) The action succeeds, or 2) A Methuselah pays a pool for the Aching Beauty. Up until then, it doesn't matter that A has an Aching Beauty, because it hasn't caused an effect yet. So, it's perfectly fine for A to bleed, for vampire C to declare a blocking attempt, and for B to mask the action before C's controller pays a pool. Once C's controller has paid the pool, though, B cannot mask for A. Ditto for Archon, Camarilla Exemplary, Donal's card text, etc. (Note that Mask isn't affected by cards in play that don't do something, but only prevent someone else from doing something. Eg, a Toreador made non-blockable by a Toreador Grand Ball can call a vote, ask for blockers, get their declines, and then have the action masked by someone else. Ditto with inherent bonuses to stealth.) --Colin McGuigan

> (Note that Mask isn't affected by cards in play that don't do something, > but only prevent someone else from doing something. Eg, a Toreador made > non-blockable by a Toreador Grand Ball can call a vote, ask for > blockers, get their declines, and then have the action masked by someone > else. Ditto with inherent bonuses to stealth.) > > --Colin McGuigan Just to check that I understand this last point properly: Player A had Jost (+1 stealth on each action) + OBF minion.. Jost Computer Hacks. Player B attemps 2nd trad block. OBF minion plays sup. cloak, then sup Mask. Is OBF minion now acting at 3 stealth? How about if Jost was given obf, and he masked an action that was originally at 0 stealth? Does it remain at 0 stealth?

On 9 Nov 2003 20:37:01 -0800, icantbelievehollow...@hotmail.com (Hollowboy) wrote: >Player A had Jost (+1 stealth on each action) + OBF minion.. Jost >Computer Hacks. Player B attemps 2nd trad block. OBF minion plays sup. >cloak, then sup Mask. Is OBF minion now acting at 3 stealth? No. Jost's stealth does not carry over to other minions. >How about if Jost was given obf, and he masked an action that was >originally at 0 stealth? Does it remain at 0 stealth? No, it gains one stealth when Jost takes over the action. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com

The Lasombra expounded: > On 9 Nov 2003 20:37:01 -0800, > icantbelievehollow...@hotmail.com (Hollowboy) wrote: > > >Player A had Jost (+1 stealth on each action) + OBF minion.. Jost > >Computer Hacks. Player B attemps 2nd trad block. OBF minion plays sup. > >cloak, then sup Mask. Is OBF minion now acting at 3 stealth? > > No. > Jost's stealth does not carry over to other minions. however.. you could use Jost, have someone try to block, gain a stealth, block fails, Then mask after you are through? (thus succeeding in the action at 1 stealth even though there was a 1-intercept minion trying to block?)

Timlagor wrote: > you could use Jost, have someone try to block, gain a stealth, > block fails, Then mask after you are through? > (thus succeeding in the action at 1 stealth even though there was a > 1-intercept minion trying to block?) Yes, if you do it after the blocking stage is over. --Colin McGuigan

Hollowboy wrote: > Just to check that I understand this last point properly: > > Player A had Jost (+1 stealth on each action) + OBF minion.. Jost > Computer Hacks. Player B attemps 2nd trad block. OBF minion plays sup. > cloak, then sup Mask. Is OBF minion now acting at 3 stealth? Like Lasombra says, no, Jost's inherent stealth doesn't carry over. The masking vamp would be acting at +2 stealth. > How about if Jost was given obf, and he masked an action that was > originally at 0 stealth? Does it remain at 0 stealth? No, it becomes +1. --Colin McGuigan

Colin McGuigan expounded: > Hollowboy wrote: > > Just to check that I understand this last point properly: > > > > Player A had Jost (+1 stealth on each action) + OBF minion.. Jost > > Computer Hacks. Player B attemps 2nd trad block. OBF minion plays sup. > > cloak, then sup Mask. Is OBF minion now acting at 3 stealth? > > Like Lasombra says, no, Jost's inherent stealth doesn't carry over. The > masking vamp would be acting at +2 stealth. Coudl someone explain wher ethe extra stealth is doming from please? (1 Jost + 1 Mask + ??)

[ quoted text not captured ] Cloak the Gathering. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3FAE372F...@white-wolf.com>... > Colin McGuigan wrote: > > Oortje4ever wrote: > > > > Google is your friend! > > Correct. > Ehhm I didn't wrote that! Colin!!!!! > Colin McGuigan wrote: > yes, what? oh whatever... thanks for the enlightment. Oortje

Colin McGuigan <maguaSP...@speakeasy.net> wrote in message news:<J_WcnVJyxvC...@speakeasy.net>... [ quoted text not captured ] Fair enough. That means I missed something when you wrote: +++begin+++ (Note that Mask isn't affected by cards in play that don't do something, but only prevent someone else from doing something. Eg, a Toreador made non-blockable by a Toreador Grand Ball can call a vote, ask for blockers, get their declines, and then have the action masked by someone else. Ditto with inherent bonuses to stealth.) +++end+++ ...that last sentence intrigues me. By "inherent bonuses", I thought you meant Jost and pals. What *did* you mean? The +3 on sup. Magic of the Smith, the +2 on guard duty, that sort of thing? Thanx, Craig

Hollowboy wrote: > +++begin+++ > (Note that Mask isn't affected by cards in play that don't do > something, > but only prevent someone else from doing something. Eg, a Toreador > made > non-blockable by a Toreador Grand Ball can call a vote, ask for > blockers, get their declines, and then have the action masked by > someone > else. Ditto with inherent bonuses to stealth.) > +++end+++ > > ....that last sentence intrigues me. By "inherent bonuses", I thought > you meant Jost and pals. I did. Perhaps poor phrasing. When I said "isn't affected by", read "isn't made illegal by". > What *did* you mean? The +3 on sup. Magic of the Smith, the +2 on > guard duty, that sort of thing? I meant that Jost (inherent +1 stealth) can still have his actions masked by someone else, even if they lack an inherent +1 stealth, even if the +1 stealth has already been made relevant (by a block attempt or the like). (As opposed to the Aching Beauty, where you cannot mask an AB minion, even if you have AB yourself, if the pool has already been paid) (And, just to repeat: if someone masks an action of Jost's, they don't _get_ his +1 stealth...but they can still do it.) --Colin McGuigan