"Before range is determined" timing? [Hey, Scalpel (or anyone)]

How is timing resolved when more than one party wants to play a "before range is determined" card or effect in combat? For instance, there's a Chimeristry card, Illusions of the Kindred, that ends the current combat and begins a new combat with a "phantom" vampire. This has to be played "before range is determined". What if the opposing vampire was equipped with the Shackles of Enkidu, which ends combat "before range is determined" and shackles the victim? Who gets to use their "combat ends" effect first? Are they both declared and then simultaneously resolved? To further complicate matters, what if a third party wanted to use Muriel or the Arboretum to end combat. I presume he would have the option to pre-empt the Illusions of the Kindred or the use of the Shackles. Could he wait until they were declared and then end combat before their effects kick in? -Tom (aka Ichabod Kagass, Exiled Primogen of Little Rock) ***"Blood only means what you let it."***"Unfortunately, it's not possible to throw a bomb into pure mathematics."***"There must have been a time, before it all began, when we could have said 'no'. Somehow we missed it."***"Senta, willst du mich verderben?"***

In article <32967939...@news.primenet.com>, kag...@primenet.com wrote: > How is timing resolved when more than one party wants to play > a "before range is determined" card or effect in combat? Noted for the next Rules Meeting. ------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Wilkie Wot...@aol.com a.k.a."Scalpel" Customer Service, Wizards of the Coast "This isn't going to have a happy ending" -Detective Somerset, Se7en -------------------------------------------------------------

kag...@primenet.com (Ichabod Kagass) writes: > How is timing resolved when more than one party wants to play >a "before range is determined" card or effect in combat? All timing issues (aka: 'slap' situations - after the Slap Jack card game) are resolved by granting the acting minion/methuselah the first opportunity to play any effect at each stage (phase/sub-pahse) of the game. > For instance, there's a Chimeristry card, Illusions of the >Kindred, that ends the current combat and begins a new combat with a >"phantom" vampire. This has to be played "before range is determined". >What if the opposing vampire was equipped with the Shackles of Enkidu, >which ends combat "before range is determined" and shackles the >victim? Who gets to use their "combat ends" effect first? Are they >both declared and then simultaneously resolved? One is declared first - namely, whichever one the acting minion is attempting. It resolves immediately - ending combat (and whatever else it does). With the combat ended, the blocker/defender cannot invoke his effect. > To further complicate matters, what if a third party wanted to >use Muriel or the Arboretum to end combat. I presume he would have the >option to pre-empt the Illusions of the Kindred or the use of the >Shackles. Could he wait until they were declared and then end combat >before their effects kick in? Third party interference is ordered clockwise around the table, starting with the acting player's Prey. It cannot be used to pre-empt anything that the active parties have done. (Tapping Muriel cannot pre-empt the Illusionary Kindred - but *can* be used to terminate the new combat involving the phantom Kindred - if neither the Phantom nor the opposing minion do something to end combat again). -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Eschew http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | Obfuscation Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |