Ritual of the Bitter Rose Discussion

This is in regards to the latter half of the cards errata which goes something like this (my interpretation of the cards text) "as a result of combat where the opposing minion is burned, each of my Vampires gains blood equal to the blood on the opposing Vampire being burned". Lets use an example: Agrippina (Superior Obfuscate, Minor Potence) gets into combat with Osmo (at full blood) via Hidden Lurker. She hits Osmo with Increased Strength and a Thrown Gate, then rips off his head with Decapitate followed by a Ritual of The Bitter Rose. How much blood do my Vampires gain? 2nd Example: Jimmy Dunn (Superior Celerity, Superior Potence) gets into combat with Osmo (at full) and plays death of my conscience to gain +4 damage each strike, uses acrobatics (for dodge w/ additional strike), then Blurs (for 2 additional strikes) whacking Osmo for 15 pts of damage followed by a pulled fangs. Being as Osmo is being burned in combat I then play Ritual of The Bitter Rose. How much blood do I get? The reason for the 2 examples is that the first is made possible mostly through the inclusion of The Sabbat expansion. The second example is somewhat typical (though exaggerated) of the original Jyhad/V:TES set. My point then becomes, what was the intent/spirit of the card in the original set? My play group sided with me in the second example allowing my Vamps to gain the blood on Osmo on the way to being burnt, otherwise what's the point of playing a card that gains you 0 blood (becoming wallpaper).

Bernard M. Bresnahan wrote: > [clipidy clip clip clip examples of vampire burnings] Two things. One is that in example two, you played an Acrobatics and then a blur. This is not allowed. Only 1 card that gives additional strikes may be played per round. Second item. There is the possibility of being burned in combat while having a significant amount of blood on the vampire. Its called Amaranth. You strike for 1 agg damage from say a hand strike modified by Wolf Claws and then Amaranth. The opposing vampire is at their original blood count minus the 1 blood. Yes, I know it's not a common occurrence but RotBR is consistant with many other VTES rare cards in its odd but not extraordinarily useful effect. Robert -- ...................................................................... :The opinions expressed here are strictly my own delusional ramblings: :and do not reflect the opinions of The Walt Disney Company. : : : :Robert Goudie robert...@studio.disney.com: :LA Tourny Info -> http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~ezix/other/rg/vtourn_1.html: :....................................................................: :Da pony run, he jump he pitch. He t'row my master in da ditch. : :He died and da jury wondered why. Da verdict was the blue tail fly.: :....................................................................:

Granted that only one additional strike card may be used in a combat (though is that errata from the news group or is it actually in the rule book someplace?), I was trying to make something of a point. I already considered Amaranth, though it's inane (IMHO) to create a card set where one card is only usable with only one other card to reap a benefit (Speaking of the Original Jyhad / V:TES card stock). So in terms of the examples I used (pretend I have a house rule that allows more than one additional strike card to be played in a round of combat), I'd like to hear how much blood should be expected from the resulting combats. [ quoted text not captured ]

Bernard M. Bresnahan wrote: > > Granted that only one additional strike card may be used in a combat > (though is that errata from the news group or is it actually in the rule > book someplace?), It is the right rule; whether it's in the rulebook or not isn't really a good question, since both the Jyhad and V:tES rulebooks are really bad. Try getting LSJ's rules summaries and outlines; he posts them at the beginning of every month. > I was trying to make something of a point. I already > considered Amaranth, though it's inane (IMHO) to create a card set where > one card is only usable with only one other card to reap a benefit > (Speaking of the Original Jyhad / V:TES card stock). IIRC, isn't Ritual of the Bitter Rose usable after a diablerie action as well? Just because it doesn't work with Potence doesn't mean it doesn't work at all. > So in terms of the > examples I used (pretend I have a house rule that allows more than one > additional strike card to be played in a round of combat), I'd like to > hear how much blood should be expected from the resulting combats. Zero. When the vampires were burned, they had zero blood on them, so you get zero. Just as if the Potent vampire had Amaranthed the opposing vampire, since the burned vampire had no blood, the diablerizing vampire gets none (but still gets equipment, etc.). As Robert said, many rare Jyhad cards are more interesting than they are particularly useful; one of the great things about the game. James -- James Hamblin je...@cornell.edu

Bernard M. Bresnahan wrote: > > Granted that only one additional strike card may be used in a combat > (though is that errata from the news group or is it actually in the rule > book someplace?), I was trying to make something of a point. I already It's in the rulebook. (Section 21, second item #4) Robert wasn't minimizing your point; he's just too helpful sometimes, I suppose. > considered Amaranth, though it's inane (IMHO) to create a card set where > one card is only usable with only one other card to reap a benefit > (Speaking of the Original Jyhad / V:TES card stock). So in terms of the > examples I used (pretend I have a house rule that allows more than one > additional strike card to be played in a round of combat), I'd like to > hear how much blood should be expected from the resulting combats. If the combatant goes is burned by taking aggravated damage, then he will have zero blood when he goes to the ash heap. By card text, Ritual of the Bitter Rose will give each of your vampires zero blood. To gain more than zero blood, you will have to find another way of sending the vampire to the ash heap in combat. As for only being able to use it with Amaranth, that is not true. You can use it on a Diablerie action (which is cardless, to boot). As for needing another card to use it in combat, that is true regardless, since you cannot burn a vampire in combat without using a card (or the special ability of a few of the vampires - which also amounts to using a card). -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@regency.wizards.com) Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. (*) - Subject to review by Rules Team

On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, Bernard M. Bresnahan wrote: > This is in regards to the latter half of the cards errata which goes > something like this (my interpretation of the cards text) "as a result > of combat where the opposing minion is burned, each of my Vampires gains > blood equal to the blood on the opposing Vampire being burned". > [snip] > My play group sided with me in the second example allowing my Vamps to > gain the blood on Osmo on the way to being burnt, otherwise what's the > point of playing a card that gains you 0 blood (becoming wallpaper). Amaranth, Amaranth, Amaranth. You could play a requireless deck with Luck Blow, Pulled Fangs, Amaranth, and Ritual of the Bitter Rose with weenies or your favorite vamps with specials to enter combat. Richard | Don't let yourself get in your own way. -Wicker |