TOM: DS card questions/clarifications

: Sacrificial Lamb : ---------------- : I assume that the regular rules for payment of actions are in effect for : this card; namely, do not pay if the action is blocked, and pay before the : effect of the card kick in if the action is not blocked. This is : therefore more of a 'what were you thinking' question; the card costs 3, : but the vampire gains back blood equal to the burned vampires capacity, : so for any target with a capacity more than 3 it becomes a net gain, yes? : 'Burning Vampires For Fun and Profit!' It isn't even considered : diablerie, so there is _no_ reason not to use this card EVER, and it : isn't likely to be blocked being am OBFUSCATE card and all... : (At least if the cost was paid after you know that the acting vampire would : end up at least 3 shy of capacity, but this way there is nothing stopping : them from filling up completely.) Sacrificial Lamb is a good card. However, the fact that you may have to hold it in your hand waiting for someone to go into torpor and the fact that you need superior to do much makes it only good not terrific. Vampires aren't always just sitting around in torpor. Some games you won't even see a vampires in torpor long enough to play this card. Cards that aren't even usable in some games tend to take up much needed space in your deck where you could have cards that can always be played. -- -Eric Wohlstadter

While looking through my first DS boosters last night, several questions came to me regarding the wording on some of the cards, their interactions with the rules and with each other. In the interest of saving space, I'll compile them all into one post. Anathema (and any other PA that says Prince/Justicar) -------- Can these PAs be called by Inner Circle Members? I had assumed yes, and that a retroactive ruling would be issued to cover Jyhad/VTES PAs as well, but when the DS votes don't even say it... Closed Session -------------- When is this card played? Previously, the ruling has been that cards which say 'Use during a political action' may not be played until the vote is not blocked, but this card specifically says, "Non-Camarilla vampires may still block this action," indicating that it is played at some time before that. Is this simply a 'helpful reminder' stating that any such blocks are not voided? Forest of Shadows ----------------- Card states that stealth cained from this card lasts until end of turn, so how does this interact with cards which allow the vampire to untap and take another action? (Change of Target, Freak Drive, Majesty, etc.) Does the vampire still have any benefit from this card? If yes, how much stealth does the vampire have on the subsequent actions? (I ask this because of the restriction that a vampire cannot gain more than +1 stealth over the reacting vampire's intercept. If I had used this card for +2 stealth, is the second action at an initial +2 stealth, or at initial +0 with up to +2 available to be added for 'free'?) Also if yes, is use of this stealth mandatory, or may I burn cards from my hand instead of utilizing this stealth? From reading posts on this newsgroup, I am under the impression that there is a card which does the same for Intercept for Tremere; how does this work with WWEF and other untapping cards, should they later block further actions? (If no such card exists, ignore this question.) Horrific Countenance -------------------- Is this usable only by the acting vampire, or may a different vampire also use this card to midify the action, a la Cloak the Gathering? Inbase Discotek --------------- May the additional blood be given to _any_ vampire that successfully hunts (at your discretion) or only vampires you control? Sacrificial Lamb ---------------- I assume that the regular rules for payment of actions are in effect for this card; namely, do not pay if the action is blocked, and pay before the effect of the card kick in if the action is not blocked. This is therefore more of a 'what were you thinking' question; the card costs 3, but the vampire gains back blood equal to the burned vampires capacity, so for any target with a capacity more than 3 it becomes a net gain, yes? 'Burning Vampires For Fun and Profit!' It isn't even considered diablerie, so there is _no_ reason not to use this card EVER, and it isn't likely to be blocked being am OBFUSCATE card and all... (At least if the cost was paid after you know that the acting vampire would end up at least 3 shy of capacity, but this way there is nothing stopping them from filling up completely.) Secure Haven ------------ The additional cost for playing Masters on this vampire applies to 'Any Methuselah' - I assume this also includes the vampires controller? (I.e. it will now cost me 1 pool to put a Master:Skill card on this vampire.) Are other vampires allowd to take (D) actions against equipment and retainers placed on this vampire? (Assuming that such actions exist - I can't think of any at the moment...) Or does the vampire's protection also apply to all in his possession? Thoughts Betrayed ----------------- How does this card interact with Pulled Fangs, Amaranth and other such cards? I assume it would still be allowable to pay these cards, as combat is now 'over', yes? Veiled Sight ------------ Wondering about the interaction with the carryover Forest of Shadows from the above question - who 'declares' first? The strike given by this card may be used in any round, correct? Shane H.W. Travis | I try to take one day at a time, tra...@duke.usask.ca | but sometimes several days attack at once. Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | -- Ashleigh Brilliant

>>Inbase Discotek Since this location is in Frankfurt, shouldn't it be spelled Diskothek? ~Biomechanoid

In article <4a4d7b$3...@tribune.usask.ca>, Shane Travis <tra...@duke.usask.ca> wrote: >While looking through my first DS boosters last night, several questions >came to me regarding the wording on some of the cards, their interactions >with the rules and with each other. In the interest of saving space, >I'll compile them all into one post. Good questions, You'll have to wait for Tom on most, but I have some insight on a few: >Horrific Countenance >-------------------- > Is this usable only by the acting vampire, or may a different vampire >also use this card to midify the action, a la Cloak the Gathering? All action modifiers are usable only by the acting minion unless card text says otherwise. (The Jyhad rules state this explicitly, the VtES rules omit this, probably in error, and can easily be read to allow any minion controlled by the acting minion's Methuselah to modify the action.) >Inbase Discotek >--------------- > May the additional blood be given to _any_ vampire that successfully >hunts (at your discretion) or only vampires you control? Any. (card text). >Thoughts Betrayed >----------------- > How does this card interact with Pulled Fangs, Amaranth and other such >cards? I assume it would still be allowable to pay these cards, as >combat is now 'over', yes? No. Those cards are all played during combat (pulled fangs at the Press stage, Amaranth at the end of combat). The victim Meth. could still play Minor Boon, however, since that card *is* played after the combat is over (not likely he'll be able to send the opposition into torpor with no cards, but ... ) Note: Amaranth is kinda iffy - It is a combat card, but is played after a vampire is sent to torpor, which implies that combat is over. It could go either way. References: --------- Jyhad[7.2.2] Action modifier cards: Only the acting minion can use these cards, unless the particular cards note otherwise. --------- VtES(3.2.2) Action modifier cards: These cards are played after your minion takes an action. VtES(7) ... Remember, though, that you can only play action modifiers if one of your vampires is the acting minion (Note the "one of your vampires" -lsj) VtES(D) Action Modifier Card: Allows a player to modify the action of a minion. ---------- From: aa...@hal.COM (Tom Wylie) Newsgroups: rec.games.deckmaster Subject: NEW: Rulings summary for Jyhad Date: 9 Nov 1994 13:11:24 -0800 Message-ID: <39rdts$s...@perv.hal.COM> Pulled Fangs: Used during the press step, and counts up damage successfully inflicted during the round. ---------- From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Subject: DESIGN TEAM RULINGS: 5/9/95 Date: 9 May 1995 07:17:48 GMT Message-ID: <3on4us$l...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> 1a) "Someone's vampire just got sent to torpor, and the other player is planning on burning it with Amaranth. Do I have time to save the vampire with Minor Boon? If I do, does it continue the combat?" 1b) "If a vampire is saved with Minor Boon, can I play Pulled Fangs on it, and send it to torpor again?" Minor Boon is used after the combat is actually over. Thus it is used after Pulled Fangs could be played, and using it does not cause the combat to continue. If it matters whether it is used before or after another card, use the normal play procedure for combat: acting player plays first, then blocking player, then in turn order starting with the acting player's prey. -- ----- L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) | The opinions expressed are mine Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger | and subject to card text

In article <4a4d7b$3...@tribune.usask.ca>, tra...@duke.usask.ca (Shane Travis) writes: > >Forest of Shadows >----------------- > Card states that stealth cained from this card lasts until end of turn, >so how does this interact with cards which allow the vampire to untap and >take another action? (Change of Target, Freak Drive, Majesty, etc.) Does >the vampire still have any benefit from this card? "stealth cained" is a very interesting (subliminal?) typo :-)

Shane Travis <tra...@duke.usask.ca> wrote: >Anathema (and any other PA that says Prince/Justicar) > Can these PAs be called by Inner Circle Members? I had assumed yes, and >that a retroactive ruling would be issued to cover Jyhad/VTES PAs as well, >but when the DS votes don't even say it... Inner Circle members cannot play P/J cards unless the card also lets IC play them. For example, the IC may not call Anathema. >Closed Session >-------------- > When is this card played? Previously, the ruling has been that cards >which say 'Use during a political action' may not be played until the >vote is not blocked, but this card specifically says, "Non-Camarilla >vampires may still block this action," indicating that it is played at >some time before that. Is this simply a 'helpful reminder' stating that >any such blocks are not voided? As I remember, there is somethig slightly off in Closed Session's text, tho I don't remember exactly what that was. I'll have to check. >Forest of Shadows >----------------- > Card states that stealth cained from this card lasts until end of turn, >so how does this interact with cards which allow the vampire to untap and >take another action? (Change of Target, Freak Drive, Majesty, etc.) Does >the vampire still have any benefit from this card? Yes, just like the card says. > If yes, how much stealth does the vampire have on the subsequent actions? >(I ask this because of the restriction that a vampire cannot gain more >than +1 stealth over the reacting vampire's intercept. If I had used >this card for +2 stealth, is the second action at an initial +2 stealth, >or at initial +0 with up to +2 available to be added for 'free'?) You cannot play or use a card that increases stealth unless you have to, but an action can start with stealth. So if you use Forest of Shadows for +2 stealth, any new actions later in the turn will have that +2 stealth. > Also if yes, is use of this stealth mandatory, or may I burn cards from >my hand instead of utilizing this stealth? Once the bonus is there, it's alwasy there, just like innate stealth such as Lucretia's. >Horrific Countenance >-------------------- > Is this usable only by the acting vampire, or may a different vampire >also use this card to midify the action, a la Cloak the Gathering? Only by the acting vampire. >Inbase Discotek >--------------- > May the additional blood be given to _any_ vampire that successfully >hunts (at your discretion) or only vampires you control? Any vampire at all. >Sacrificial Lamb >---------------- > I assume that the regular rules for payment of actions are in effect for >this card; namely, do not pay if the action is blocked, and pay before the >effect of the card kick in if the action is not blocked. This is >therefore more of a 'what were you thinking' question; the card costs 3, >but the vampire gains back blood equal to the burned vampires capacity, >so for any target with a capacity more than 3 it becomes a net gain, yes? Yes. >Secure Haven >------------ > The additional cost for playing Masters on this vampire applies to 'Any >Methuselah' - I assume this also includes the vampires controller?... Yes. > Are other vampires allowd to take (D) actions against equipment and >retainers placed on this vampire? (Assuming that such actions exist - I >can't think of any at the moment...) Or does the vampire's protection >also apply to all in his possession? It just protects the minion. >Thoughts Betrayed >----------------- > How does this card interact with Pulled Fangs, Amaranth and other such >cards? I assume it would still be allowable to pay these cards, as >combat is now 'over', yes? Such cards are played before the combat actualy ends, so would not be legal. >Veiled Sight >------------ > Wondering about the interaction with the carryover Forest of Shadows from >the above question - who 'declares' first? Usual procedure: acting player declares first. When she is done, opponent declares. (Then other players would declare.) If everyone passes in succession, then the opportunity for effects is over. > The strike given by this card may be used in any round, correct? Correct.