Some Hand, Uncontrolled, and Ash Heap Questions

Okay I have a handful of questions concerning your hand (no pun intended), uncontrolled region, and ash heap. They're a bit weird but they've been bothering me for a while... #1.) Are you allowed to shuffle your hand and cards in your uncontrolled region whenever you want? For example after Fortune Teller 1 looks at a card in your hand, can you shuffle your hand before Fortune Teller 2 looks at another card? Also, if someone else looks at one of your four uncontrolled vampires, are you allowed to shuffle them around to confuse them? #2.) I know that in general you are allowed to shuffle about cards in your ash heap (since order doesn't matter). Does that mean you can look through your ash heap and organize the cards? You know, put the 5 Bondings together and the 4 Cloaks together so that you know exactly how many you have left of each? #3.) I know that other Methusalehs are allowed to look at your ash heap. Are they allowed to mess with the order of your ash heap? (And can you change the order of theirs?) #4.) I'm just curious as to how most people are going to deal with Grasp the Ghostly. I know a lot of the time people discard things without telling others so who knows whether or not someone discards a valuable piece of equipment. So do you suggest people checking everyone else's ash heap every few turns? (If so, it would take an awful lot of time). Or would it be reasonable (or enforcable) for someone to ask someone else what's in the ash heap? And since asking/checking only when you have a Grasp would sort of reveal your hand so to speak, wouldn't it be a good idea to ask/check every once in a while to keep everyone else on their toes? Thanks! Halcyan 2

halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote: >Okay I have a handful of questions concerning your hand (no pun intended), >uncontrolled region, and ash heap. They're a bit weird but they've been >bothering me for a while... > >#1.) Are you allowed to shuffle your hand and cards in your uncontrolled region >whenever you want? For example after Fortune Teller 1 looks at a card in your >hand, can you shuffle your hand before Fortune Teller 2 looks at another card? >Also, if someone else looks at one of your four uncontrolled vampires, are you >allowed to shuffle them around to confuse them? Yes. There is no order to your hand or uncontrolled region. You've got to keep the counters with their respective cards in your uncontrolled region, though. >#2.) I know that in general you are allowed to shuffle about cards in your ash >heap (since order doesn't matter). Does that mean you can look through your ash >heap and organize the cards? You know, put the 5 Bondings together and the 4 >Cloaks together so that you know exactly how many you have left of each? Sure. >#3.) I know that other Methusalehs are allowed to look at your ash heap. Are >they allowed to mess with the order of your ash heap? (And can you change the >order of theirs?) Sure. I don't see the point here, though - they'd be free to rearrange the stack back. This may end up with a judge being called over to determine stalling. >#4.) I'm just curious as to how most people are going to deal with Grasp the >Ghostly. I know a lot of the time people discard things without telling others ? Most players around here pay close attention to everyone's discards. That information is valuable by itself. >so who knows whether or not someone discards a valuable piece of equipment. So >do you suggest people checking everyone else's ash heap every few turns? (If >so, it would take an awful lot of time). Or would it be reasonable (or >enforcable) for someone to ask someone else what's in the ash heap? And since Sure. If she declines to tell you, you're free to look at her ash heap yourself. >asking/checking only when you have a Grasp would sort of reveal your hand so to >speak, wouldn't it be a good idea to ask/check every once in a while to keep >everyone else on their toes? It'd be a very good idea to keep up with everyone's discard in general. That information is useful for things beyound simple necromancy. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Halcyan 2 wrote: > > Okay I have a handful of questions concerning your hand (no pun intended), > uncontrolled region, and ash heap. They're a bit weird but they've been > bothering me for a while... > > #1.) Are you allowed to shuffle your hand and cards in your uncontrolled region > whenever you want? For example after Fortune Teller 1 looks at a card in your Yes. > hand, can you shuffle your hand before Fortune Teller 2 looks at another card? Yes. > Also, if someone else looks at one of your four uncontrolled vampires, are you > allowed to shuffle them around to confuse them? Yes. > #2.) I know that in general you are allowed to shuffle about cards in your ash > heap (since order doesn't matter). Does that mean you can look through your ash > heap and organize the cards? You know, put the 5 Bondings together and the 4 > Cloaks together so that you know exactly how many you have left of each? Yes. > #3.) I know that other Methusalehs are allowed to look at your ash heap. Are > they allowed to mess with the order of your ash heap? (And can you change the > order of theirs?) Possibly, but I see no purpose in this. At any rate, the ash heap is unordered, so there's no real rule regarding the re-ordering of it. > #4.) I'm just curious as to how most people are going to deal with Grasp the > Ghostly. I know a lot of the time people discard things without telling others > so who knows whether or not someone discards a valuable piece of equipment. So ? Most players around here pay close attention to what other players are discarding - that's valuable information for anyone, not just necromancers. > do you suggest people checking everyone else's ash heap every few turns? (If > so, it would take an awful lot of time). Or would it be reasonable (or > enforcable) for someone to ask someone else what's in the ash heap? And since > asking/checking only when you have a Grasp would sort of reveal your hand so to > speak, wouldn't it be a good idea to ask/check every once in a while to keep > everyone else on their toes? It's a good idea just because it keeps you informed as to what's going on with their deck. [ quoted text not captured ]

>>#3.) I know that other Methusalehs are allowed to look at your ash heap. Are >>they allowed to mess with the order of your ash heap? (And can you change >the >>order of theirs?) > >Sure. I don't see the point here, though - they'd be free to rearrange >the stack back. This may end up with a judge being called over to >determine stalling. One might want to rearrange someone else's ash heap to get a better idea of what cards have been played (and so what cards are left). In cases where you know what's in the other player's deck (or even with Pre-constructed starters) and especially in any sort of CL environment it might be helpful to know how many bleed modifiers or stealth (and how many of each type) has been played. >>#4.) I'm just curious as to how most people are going to deal with Grasp the >>Ghostly. I know a lot of the time people discard things without telling >others > >? Most players around here pay close attention to everyone's discards. >That information is valuable by itself. Really? Well most people I know discard rather discreetly. And it's hard to sort of peer across the table to see what card someone cross-table just discarded. >>so who knows whether or not someone discards a valuable piece of equipment. >So >>do you suggest people checking everyone else's ash heap every few turns? (If >>so, it would take an awful lot of time). Or would it be reasonable (or >>enforcable) for someone to ask someone else what's in the ash heap? And >since > >Sure. If she declines to tell you, you're free to look at her ash heap >yourself. > If she doesn't "decline," is she obligated to tell the truth? (If not, then one might as well look at the heap oneself each and every time). Halcyan 2

Halcyan 2 wrote: > > >>#3.) I know that other Methusalehs are allowed to look at your ash heap. Are > >>they allowed to mess with the order of your ash heap? (And can you change > >the > >>order of theirs?) > > > >Sure. I don't see the point here, though - they'd be free to rearrange > >the stack back. This may end up with a judge being called over to > >determine stalling. > > One might want to rearrange someone else's ash heap to get a better idea of > what cards have been played (and so what cards are left). In cases where you > know what's in the other player's deck (or even with Pre-constructed starters) > and especially in any sort of CL environment it might be helpful to know how > many bleed modifiers or stealth (and how many of each type) has been played. That's what counting's for. Since they can rearrange the stack as soon as you're done (the ash heap has no order), there's not much point here. > >>#4.) I'm just curious as to how most people are going to deal with Grasp the > >>Ghostly. I know a lot of the time people discard things without telling > >others > > > >? Most players around here pay close attention to everyone's discards. > >That information is valuable by itself. > > Really? Well most people I know discard rather discreetly. And it's hard to > sort of peer across the table to see what card someone cross-table just > discarded. It'd be a good habit to get into, I assure you. I'd suggest asking about every discard "what was that?" if you can't see it. > >>so who knows whether or not someone discards a valuable piece of equipment. > >So > >>do you suggest people checking everyone else's ash heap every few turns? (If > >>so, it would take an awful lot of time). Or would it be reasonable (or > >>enforcable) for someone to ask someone else what's in the ash heap? And > >since > > > >Sure. If she declines to tell you, you're free to look at her ash heap > >yourself. > > > > If she doesn't "decline," is she obligated to tell the truth? (If not, then one > might as well look at the heap oneself each and every time). Yes. See the V:EKN rules regarding misrepresentation of public information. [ quoted text not captured ]