Form of Mist (LSJ)

Nothing to do... Why not pester LSJ with some more questions? I don't understand some of the rulings/clarifications on the white-wolf page Form of mist: >The superior form cannot be used by the acting vampire unless he needs the stealth. [RTR 19970630] When do you need the stealth? There is blocking minion when the strike resolves => you don't need the stealth => this card can never be played. Where do my logic fail here? ;o) >Performing diablerie (via Amaranth) at the end of the combat that is ended by superior Form of Mist will nullify the "continue action" effect. >[LSJ 19980819] I can't really see this happening. What obscure corner-case am I missing here? /Henrik

In message <9jq78l$12nee$1...@ID-99227.news.dfncis.de>, Henrik <henri...@spray.se> writes >>The superior form cannot be used by the acting vampire unless he needs the >stealth. [RTR 19970630] > >When do you need the stealth? When you got blocked by intercept, basically. (Remember, an action could be blocked by Brujah Frenzy, despite excess stealth and no blocking minion.) I bleed. You block. I play Earth Control, +2 stealth. You play Enhanced Senses, +2 intercept. During combat, I play Form of Mist at superior, because I need the stealth *when I go to the continue action effect*. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D "Surely somewhere out there there's a woman who's EBD690ECD7A1F been sodomized by her father and is capable of B457CA213D7E6 composing a few coherent sentences on the subject." 68C3695D623D5D

Henrik wrote: > > Nothing to do... Why not pester LSJ with some more questions? > > I don't understand some of the rulings/clarifications on the white-wolf page > > Form of mist: > > >The superior form cannot be used by the acting vampire unless he needs the > stealth. [RTR 19970630] > > When do you need the stealth? There is blocking minion when the strike > resolves => you don't need the stealth => this card can never be played. > Where do my logic fail here? ;o) Need stealth = a blocking minion exists with intercept equal to or greater than the acting minion's stealth. > >Performing diablerie (via Amaranth) at the end of the combat that is ended > by superior Form of Mist will nullify the "continue action" effect. > >[LSJ 19980819] > > I can't really see this happening. What obscure corner-case am I missing > here? Strike: damage (with prevent as needed). Additional strike: FoM followed by disarm and amaranth (obviously :-). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

>> Nothing to do... Why not pester LSJ with some more questions? >> >> I don't understand some of the rulings/clarifications on the white-wolf >page >> >> Form of mist: >> >> >The superior form cannot be used by the acting vampire unless he needs the >> stealth. [RTR 19970630] >> >> When do you need the stealth? There is blocking minion when the strike >> resolves => you don't need the stealth => this card can never be played. >> Where do my logic fail here? ;o) > >Need stealth = a blocking minion exists with intercept equal to or >greater than the acting minion's stealth. Some more concrete examples include if you have a intercept retainer or equipment that gets destroyed during combat: Minion A hunts Minion B with Mr. Winthrop blocks Someone plays a Weather Control killing Mr. Winthrop Minion A can't play superior FoM since 1 > 0, meaning he doesn't need stealth Minion A hunts Minion B with Sport Bike blocks Minion A plays Shattering Blow on Sport Bike and possibly Blur Minion A can't play superior FoM since 1 > 0, meaning he doesn't need stealth Also, if someone with an intercept retainer blocks Stanislava, the intercept retainer doesn't provide the benefit during combat (due to Stanislava's card text). Alternatively, Drawing out the Beast would temporarily nullify a Sport Bike, etc etc etc. Hope this explains some things. Most of this is all corner case of course, but it still happens from time to time. Halcyan 2

> Some more concrete examples include if you have a intercept retainer or > equipment that gets destroyed during combat: > > Minion A hunts > Minion B with Mr. Winthrop blocks > Someone plays a Weather Control killing Mr. Winthrop > Minion A can't play superior FoM since 1 > 0, meaning he doesn't need stealth > > Minion A hunts > Minion B with Sport Bike blocks > Minion A plays Shattering Blow on Sport Bike and possibly Blur > Minion A can't play superior FoM since 1 > 0, meaning he doesn't need stealth > > Also, if someone with an intercept retainer blocks Stanislava, the intercept > retainer doesn't provide the benefit during combat (due to Stanislava's card > text). Alternatively, Drawing out the Beast would temporarily nullify a Sport > Bike, etc etc etc. Are you sure about this? It sound's like combat-effects such as retainer and equipment destruction are affecting non-combat interaction. Surely, you are not saying that if I have Igo with a sportbike and Anton in play and I block your hunt that you would be allowed to destroy the sportbike and play FOM because Anton is in play and therefore you would need the stealth. This is way, way to environmentally specific to actually be a ruling, LSJ? Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr. XZealot Archon of the Swamp

XZealot skrev i meddelandet <47b374ab.01072...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] I agree on that one. I think it's enough to forbid sup form of mist if the combat is a result of a successfull action. (i.e. bums and stuff). The rest is way to complicated for me at least. /Henrik

XZealot wrote: > [Halcyon 2 wrote:] Please cite your quotes. > > Some more concrete examples include if you have a intercept retainer or > > equipment that gets destroyed during combat: > > > > Minion A hunts > > Minion B with Mr. Winthrop blocks > > Someone plays a Weather Control killing Mr. Winthrop > > Minion A can't play superior FoM since 1 > 0, meaning he doesn't need stealth > > > > Minion A hunts > > Minion B with Sport Bike blocks > > Minion A plays Shattering Blow on Sport Bike and possibly Blur > > Minion A can't play superior FoM since 1 > 0, meaning he doesn't need stealth > > > > Also, if someone with an intercept retainer blocks Stanislava, the intercept > > retainer doesn't provide the benefit during combat (due to Stanislava's card > > text). Alternatively, Drawing out the Beast would temporarily nullify a Sport > > Bike, etc etc etc. > > Are you sure about this? It sound's like combat-effects such as > retainer and equipment destruction are affecting non-combat > interaction. If the retainer/equipment is used for non-combat interaction, it cannot be used if it is burned, yes. > Surely, you are not saying that if I have Igo with a > sportbike and Anton in play and I block your hunt that you would be > allowed to destroy the sportbike and play FOM because Anton is in play > and therefore you would need the stealth. No, since Anton is not blocking. [ quoted text not captured ]