Just thought of possible tactics to use against TB.
The wording on TB specifically states that it is played _before_ combat
begins and that the current blocking minion is restricted in combat. I
have been trying to think of cards that allow a change of minion in
combat before combat begins... Haven't thought of one yet... :)
Another simple technique is to play a Change of Target to cancel your
action and it _is_ playable since combat has yet to begin.
That nasty Etrius burns two blood and possibly a Wake for nothing!
Unfortunately I don't have any Change of Targets :(
They are the only thing that is missing from my Gangrel Deck (too be
posted sometime.)
Anyone selling singles?
--
Jeffrey Endres Undergrad B. Eng (Aerospace Avionics)
Queensland University of Technology
"Cinnamon and sugary, with softly spoken lies,
You never know just how you look through other peoples eyes."
Butthole Surfers, 'Pepper'
[ quoted text not captured ]>Anyone selling singles?[ quoted text not captured ]
Mask of a 1000 faces will also do and two gangrel already have
obfuscate.
ANd if you do it at superior so the guy needs extra intercept....
Rory
The Ref at refp...@best.com
Jeffrey Endres <j.en...@student.qut.edu.au> writes:
>Just thought of possible tactics to use against TB.>The wording on TB specifically states that it is played _before_ combat
>begins and that the current blocking minion is restricted in combat. I
>have been trying to think of cards that allow a change of minion in
>combat before combat begins... Haven't thought of one yet... :)
The "before comabt" text has been ruled to mean "as combat is entered".
So, TB is only playable after all action modifiers/reaction cards have
been played. (Not sure if this changes your argument, just thought I'd
point it out.)
--
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Experience is something you
http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | get just after you need it.
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |
Jeffrey Endres (j.en...@student.qut.edu.au) wrote:
: Just thought of possible tactics to use against TB.
Jeffrey, keep thinking.
: The wording on TB specifically states that it is played _before_ combat: begins and that the current blocking minion is restricted in combat. I
: have been trying to think of cards that allow a change of minion in
: combat before combat begins... Haven't thought of one yet... :)
The wording on TB when played at superior states that NO cards may be played
after it is played, and that it is played (by clarification from Tom Wylie)
as combat is entering. In other words, it is played such that:
No reactions or modifiers may be played after it (because combat is
starting and only combat cards are valid), even if you could play them.
No combat cards may come after (because TB is played as combat is entering,
so it must be the first thing in combat). And of course, as soon as
the superior version is played, NO cards (repeat, NO cards) may be
played from the hand afterward.
So even if there were a combat card to change the minion before combat
began (which there isn't) it would have to be worded very carefully due to
wording on TB. And of course, you CAN'T use it after your opponent lays down
his/her TB.
: Another simple technique is to play a Change of Target to cancel your: action and it _is_ playable since combat has yet to begin.
Um, well, no. Sorry. You can CERTAINLY play Change of Target before combat
begins (before they get a chance to play their TB as combat begins) but not
once the TB is laid on the table. The only way the Change of Target thing
works as "countering" TB is if you can be absolutely sure that your opponent
will play one if you get to comabt.
-spongy
Jeffrey Endres (j.en...@student.qut.edu.au) wrote:
: Just thought of possible tactics to use against TB.: The wording on TB specifically states that it is played _before_ combat: begins and that the current blocking minion is restricted in combat. I
: have been trying to think of cards that allow a change of minion in
: combat before combat begins... Haven't thought of one yet... :)
The best TB defense that I have seen is using Elysium (or Merrial Lady
Thunder). If someone plays TB, then tap Elysium before range is
determined. :-)
A more general way of dealing with it is to use equipment and retainers
for permanent stuff. Particularly if it's a tremere deck, just having a
murder of crows helps since your opponent is going to spend 2 for
thoughts and probably at least 2 for strikes and you'll wind up doing 4
pts of damage before he does any real damage. This doesn't exactly save
you but at least it makes it an even trade.
-Yousef
In note <56ie6r$m...@gw.dgii.com>, jam...@dgii.com (James Puzzo) writes:
>Jeffrey Endres (j.en...@student.qut.edu.au) wrote:
>: Just thought of possible tactics to use against TB.
>>Jeffrey, keep thinking.>
>: The wording on TB specifically states that it is played _before_ combat
>: begins and that the current blocking minion is restricted in combat. I
>: have been trying to think of cards that allow a change of minion in
>: combat before combat begins... Haven't thought of one yet... :)
>>The wording on TB when played at superior states that NO cards may be played
>after it is played, and that it is played (by clarification from Tom Wylie)
>as combat is entering. In other words, it is played such that:
>
> No reactions or modifiers may be played after it (because combat is
> starting and only combat cards are valid), even if you could play them.
>
> No combat cards may come after (because TB is played as combat is
>entering, so it must be the first thing in combat). And of course, as
>soon as the superior version is played, NO cards (repeat, NO cards) may
>be played from the hand afterward.
>
>So even if there were a combat card to change the minion before combat
>began (which there isn't) it would have to be worded very carefully due to
>wording on TB. And of course, you CAN'T use it after your opponent lays down
>his/her TB.
>
>: Another simple technique is to play a Change of Target to cancel your
>: action and it _is_ playable since combat has yet to begin.
>
>Um, well, no. Sorry. You can CERTAINLY play Change of Target before combat
>begins (before they get a chance to play their TB as combat begins) but not
>once the TB is laid on the table. The only way the Change of Target thing
>works as "countering" TB is if you can be absolutely sure that your opponent
>will play one if you get to comabt.
>
>-spongy
>
---
d out
the card states that the minion may not play any more cards but we all know
that MASTER crads represent a methesulahs intervention so frenzies could
technically be played
?
>The wording on TB specifically states that it is played _before_ combat
>begins and that the current blocking minion is restricted in combat. I
>have been trying to think of cards that allow a change of minion in
>combat before combat begins... Haven't thought of one yet... :)
TB is used BEFORE combat begins, yes.... And it work BEFORE ALL OTHER
COMBAT CARDS, but NOT REACTION CARDS or ACTION MODIFIERS.
>They are the only thing that is missing from my Gangrel Deck (too be
>posted sometime.)
Gangrel Deck you say... I Found a VERY GOOD card useable when playing gangrel
against Tremere TB decks that deals 2 aggrevated damage the second round in
combat.... The card is Ablative Skin... Its a Uncommon Fortitude Card released
in The Sabbat, and gives you Counters to prevent damage with....
In superior you can use theese counters (three counters) to prevent
aggrevated damage.
The card is already in play, so you can prevent even if the opposing vampire
is using thoughts betrayed =)
> No reactions or modifiers may be played after it (because combat is
> starting and only combat cards are valid), even if you could play them.> No combat cards may come after (because TB is played as combat is
> entering, so it must be the first thing in combat). And of course, as
> soon as the superior version is played, NO cards (repeat, NO cards) may
> be played from the hand afterward.
You must be joking... This means that if I block a vampire with obfuscate and
play a Thoughts Betrayed as a reaction card, then he can't use any
stealth cards, and If im fast enough, i can play Thoughts betrayed BEFORE
the opponent have the time to use Obedience....
Thoughts Betrayed is a Combat Card, and Combat does not start until both
minions have used all their Action Modifiers and Reactions.
The "Before combat begins" means that it goes before all other Combat Card's
but you can not play thoughts betrayed before Combat actually begins, becouse
------- ------
it's a Combat Card, Get it?
------
Of course you cannot play reaction cards or action Modifiers in a combat,
even if the combat contains thoughts Betrayed or not.
>Mask of a 1000 faces will also do and two gangrel already have
>obfuscate.
>ANd if you do it at superior so the guy needs extra intercept....
>Rory
>The Ref at refp...@best.com
Ye cannot play Mask of a 1000 faces when the blocking minion have used a
thoughts betrayed, this is becouse Combat is entered and the first Combat
card have already been used (TB). (Have you ever tried to use Dawn Operation
before Range is choosen? I don't think so).
Dagmar Fraser wrote:
>
> In note <56ie6r$m...@gw.dgii.com>, jam...@dgii.com (James Puzzo) writes:
> >Jeffrey Endres (j.en...@student.qut.edu.au) wrote:
> >: Just thought of possible tactics to use against TB.
> >
> >Jeffrey, keep thinking.
> >> >: The wording on TB specifically states that it is played _before_ combat> >: begins and that the current blocking minion is restricted in combat. I
> >: have been trying to think of cards that allow a change of minion in
> >: combat before combat begins... Haven't thought of one yet... :)
> >> >The wording on TB when played at superior states that NO cards may be played
> >after it is played, and that it is played (by clarification from Tom Wylie)
> >as combat is entering. In other words, it is played such that:
> >> > No reactions or modifiers may be played after it (because combat is
> > starting and only combat cards are valid), even if you could play them.
> >
> > No combat cards may come after (because TB is played as combat is
> >entering, so it must be the first thing in combat). And of course, as
> >soon as the superior version is played, NO cards (repeat, NO cards) may
> >be played from the hand afterward.
> >> >So even if there were a combat card to change the minion before combat
> >began (which there isn't) it would have to be worded very carefully due to
> >wording on TB. And of course, you CAN'T use it after your opponent lays down
> >his/her TB.
> >
> >: Another simple technique is to play a Change of Target to cancel your
> >: action and it _is_ playable since combat has yet to begin.
> >
> >Um, well, no. Sorry. You can CERTAINLY play Change of Target before combat
> >begins (before they get a chance to play their TB as combat begins) but not
> >once the TB is laid on the table. The only way the Change of Target thing
> >works as "countering" TB is if you can be absolutely sure that your opponent
> >will play one if you get to comabt.
> >
> >-spongy
> >
>
> ---
> d out
>
> the card states that the minion may not play any more cards but we all know
> that MASTER crads represent a methesulahs intervention so frenzies could
> technically be played
>
> ?
Ah nice!
Personally, I believe in following the card text unless there is an
obvious error... I was of the opinion that TB wasn't that hot, but it
seems to have been changed to a real bitch card with Tom's ruling...
Can we appeal to the Supreme court??!?
[ quoted text not captured ]
On 20 Nov 96 00:01:59 -500, staffan....@mailbox.swipnet.se
(staffan.bengtsson) wrote:
>Gangrel Deck you say... I Found a VERY GOOD card useable when playing gangrel
>against Tremere TB decks that deals 2 aggrevated damage the second round in
>combat.... The card is Ablative Skin... Its a Uncommon Fortitude Card released
>in The Sabbat, and gives you Counters to prevent damage with....
>In superior you can use theese counters (three counters) to prevent
>aggrevated damage.>The card is already in play, so you can prevent even if the opposing vampire
>is using thoughts betrayed =)
Try ritual claws and Shadow of the beast as well.
And of course various retainer cards and other permanance are great
as well.
[ quoted text not captured ]
On 20 Nov 96 00:12:18 -500, staffan....@mailbox.swipnet.se
(staffan.bengtsson) wrote:
>>Mask of a 1000 faces will also do and two gangrel already have
>>obfuscate.
>>ANd if you do it at superior so the guy needs extra intercept....>>Rory
>>The Ref at refp...@best.com>Ye cannot play Mask of a 1000 faces when the blocking minion have used a>thoughts betrayed, this is becouse Combat is entered and the first Combat
>card have already been used (TB). (Have you ever tried to use Dawn Operation
>before Range is choosen? I don't think so).
See the later reply but yes I use Dawn op while the gguy is still
deciding to risk the block, long before range is determined<g>.
[ quoted text not captured ]
On 20 Nov 96 00:09:19 -500, staffan....@mailbox.swipnet.se
>You must be joking... This means that if I block a vampire with obfuscate and
>play a Thoughts Betrayed as a reaction card, then he can't use any
>stealth cards, and If im fast enough, i can play Thoughts betrayed BEFORE
>the opponent have the time to use Obedience....>Thoughts Betrayed is a Combat Card, and Combat does not start until both
>minions have used all their Action Modifiers and Reactions.>The "Before combat begins" means that it goes before all other Combat Card's
>but you can not play thoughts betrayed before Combat actually begins, becouse
> ------- ------
>it's a Combat Card, Get it?
> ------>Of course you cannot play reaction cards or action Modifiers in a combat,
>even if the combat contains thoughts Betrayed or not.
Your quite right.
This however explains why you can use a Mask of 1000 faces or an
Obedience as well as a Dawn Op since these are action modifiers and
reaction cards which are played before combat takes place.
[ quoted text not captured ]