[LSJ] Deep Song "Considered to be acting"

Scott, I didn't see anything on this topic searching the newsgroup. Please advise. Minion "A", controlled by player 1, is a 5 cap, has [ANI] and an Owl Companion Minion "B", controlled by player 2, is a 10 cap, has [PRE][DOM] and is untapped. Minion A plays Deep Song at [ANI], targeting minion B Deep Song Type: Action Requires: Animalism [ani] (D) Bleed at +1 bleed. [ANI] Frenzy. (D) Enter combat with and tap a ready vampire controlled by another Methuselah. In that combat, that vampire is considered the acting minion. The action is unblocked and resolves in a pending combat. May Minion B still play Obedience to end combat and remain untapped, as the window for that play is "about to enter combat." He is not yet the acting minion, since combat is "about to" happen and can therefore still play reaction cards. Correct? Obedience Type: Reaction Requires: Dominate Only usable when this reacting vampire is about to enter combat with an acting younger vampire. [dom] Untap the acting vampire, do not tap this reacting vampire, and end the current action (and combat). The acting vampire cannot attempt the same action this turn. [DOM] As above, but do not untap the acting vampire. Next, assume that player 2 did not have an Obedience in hand. The action remains unblocked. Minion B taps, combat begins, minion B becomes "considered to be the acting minion" and player 2 plays with an open hand (via Owl Companion). The whole table sees that there is only 1 S:CE card (Majesty) in player 2's hand. Minion B "is considered to be" the acting minion so player 2 has the impulse. He passes pre-range. Player 1 unloads all kinds of Animalism pre-range nastiness, none of which is responded to by player 2. Player 2 declines to maneuver, player 1 goes to long with Aid from Bats, no additional maneuvers follow. Player 2 announces his strike....Majesty, replacing that card with vote from his library. Player 1 immediately uses a Direct Intervention to cancel the S:CE, now confident in hos ability to beat down minion B with no other S:CEs in player 2's hand. Is this a valid play? If Deep Song actually makes player 2 the acting player (and Minion B the acting minion), then DI is valid - just like reactions and out-of- turn Masters would be in that limbo minion phase created by Madness Network or Enkil Cog. If being "considered" the acting minion is different than "being" the acting minion, the player 1's in-combat DI is illegal and the only value gained from Deep Song is the pre-knowlege of the opponents pre- range, maneuver and strike plays. Thanks in advance for anything you can offer on this. Kind regards, Darby

[ quoted text not captured ] Hi Darby, http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/57bb5f8a22edd1f7?hl=en Can't play OoTM on your turn. I think you can play Power of All.

On Sep 18, 4:42 pm, Darby Keeney <darby.kee...@gmail.com> wrote: > If being "considered" the acting minion is different than "being" the > acting minion, the player 1's in-combat DI is illegal and the only > value gained from Deep Song is the pre-knowlege of the opponents pre- > range, maneuver and strike plays. Yeah, I don't have an actual answer, but as it is player 1's turn, I'd figure that even with the Deep Song shenanagins, you can't play the DI (as OOT Masters only get played when it isn't your turn, and even though player 2's minion is considered the acting minion, it is still player 1's turn). And that yes, the value gained from an unblocked Deep Song is that the target, who would normally be playing cards as the second player, plays them first due to being considered the acting player. SO you get to see what strike they play before you play yours. -Peter

Darby Keeney <darby....@gmail.com> wrote: > If being "considered" the acting minion is different than "being" the > acting minion, ... the only > value gained from Deep Song is the pre-knowlege of the opponents pre- > range, maneuver and strike plays. ...and effects like Elephant Guardian kicking in for the guy who played the action. Deep Song doesn't change whose turn it is. It just makes "the acting minion" and "the guy in combat with an acting minion" trade those nametags.

wedge <mat...@gmail.com> wrote: >I think you can play Power of All. You can't play Power of All during any combat, regardless of whose turn it is or isn't. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/6210539f6b182a80 "REVERSAL: Power of All cannot be played during combat." For the few reaction cards that you can play during combat, you can't use them under Deep Song. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/23c8385640aec028 *** Actually, the rule is: "A ready untapped minion can play a reaction card in response to an action taken by another Methuselah's minion." [1.6.3] and [GLOSSARY] [6.2] places another set of restrictions, sure. So LoP is still not playable, since the action was not taken by another Methuselah's minon. *** -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

Darby asked some questions about Deep Song, snipped for specific relevance: > The action is unblocked and resolves in a pending combat. May Minion > B still play Obedience to end combat and remain untapped, as the > window for that play is "about to enter combat." He is not yet the > acting minion, since combat is "about to" happen and can therefore > still play reaction cards. Correct? The minion is only considered acting in the combat, not before it. Obedience is playable, so far as I can tell. > Player 2 announces his strike....Majesty, replacing that card with > vote from his library. Player 1 immediately uses a Direct > Intervention to cancel the S:CE, now confident in hos ability to beat > down minion B with no other S:CEs in player 2's hand. Is this a > valid play? It is if the minion is acting on another player's turn due to the effect of Madness Network or Enkil Cog. Otherwise no, as per the rules of the game. > If Deep Song actually makes player 2 the acting player (and Minion B > the acting minion), then DI is valid - just like reactions and out-of- > turn Masters would be in that limbo minion phase created by Madness > Network or Enkil Cog. Deep Song does not change who the acting player is. If it did that, it would say so. Regardless of what minion is acting or is considered to be acting, it's still the same player's turn. > If being "considered" the acting minion is different than "being" the > acting minion, the player 1's in-combat DI is illegal and the only > value gained from Deep Song is the pre-knowlege of the opponents pre- > range, maneuver and strike plays. Sure it's different, but not in the way you're asking about. The target of a Deep Song can't play Form of Mist and continue an action, for example, since he's not really acting. The primary advantage of the Deep Song text is exactly as you propose here, though it also applies to effects like Elephant Guardian, as Joz pointed out. Jesse

James Coupe wrote: > wedge <mat...@gmail.com> wrote: >> I think you can play Power of All. > > You can't play Power of All during any combat, regardless of whose turn > it is or isn't. > > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/6210539f6b182a80 > "REVERSAL: Power of All cannot be played during combat." > > > For the few reaction cards that you can play during combat, you can't > use them under Deep Song. > > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/23c8385640aec028 > *** > Actually, the rule is: "A ready untapped minion can play a reaction card > in response to an action taken by another Methuselah's minion." [1.6.3] > and [GLOSSARY] > > [6.2] places another set of restrictions, sure. > > So LoP is still not playable, since the action was not taken by another > Methuselah's minon. > *** > Correct.