Heidelberg + Hidden Lurker

Can you tap the Heidelberg before the second minion enters combat (like, to give him weapons) ? -- Orpheus http://cypheranima.free.fr http://no.exit.free.fr news://news.zoo-logique.org/VTES-francophone "After all, what is an angel but a demon yet to fall ?" (Nancy A. Collins)

Orpheus wrote: > > Can you tap the Heidelberg before the second minion enters combat (like, to > give him weapons) ? No. Heidelberg cannot be tapped during an action. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3DAD5D5B...@white-wolf.com>... > Orpheus wrote: > > > > Can you tap the Heidelberg before the second minion enters combat (like, to > > give him weapons) ? > > No. Heidelberg cannot be tapped during an action. Wait a second... Hidden Lurker is another action. Couldn't you play Heidelberg after the first combat resolves and before the Hidden Lurker action is taken? Now, given that your answer to the above will probably be 'no,' would it then mean that, if you do anything after the combat other than playing Hidden Lurker, then the opportunity to play Hidden Lurker is lost? An example would be for the original acting minion to play Freak Drive to untap before the second combat begins. Cheers!

"Sebastian O" <joe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:277c4600.02101...@posting.google.com... > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3DAD5D5B...@white-wolf.com>... > Wait a second... Hidden Lurker is another action. Couldn't you play > Heidelberg after the first combat resolves and before the Hidden > Lurker action is taken? > > Now, given that your answer to the above will probably be 'no,' would > it then mean that, if you do anything after the combat other than > playing Hidden Lurker, then the opportunity to play Hidden Lurker is > lost? An example would be for the original acting minion to play > Freak Drive to untap before the second combat begins. Hidden lurker has been an action modifier, since sabbat war I think. -JTP

"John P." <verg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:eUmr9.524195$v53.21...@news3.calgary.shaw.ca... > > "Sebastian O" <joe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:277c4600.02101...@posting.google.com... > > > Now, given that your answer to the above will probably be 'no,' would > > it then mean that, if you do anything after the combat other than > > playing Hidden Lurker, then the opportunity to play Hidden Lurker is > > lost? An example would be for the original acting minion to play > > Freak Drive to untap before the second combat begins. > > Hidden lurker has been an action modifier, > since sabbat war I think. > Actually, it's been an action modifier since at least V:TES, and I think it might have even been errata'd shortly after it was printed in Jyhad. It's basically been an action modifier since before the dawn of recorded history (circa 1997).

In message <9ppr9.55689$gr6.54132@rwcrnsc53>, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes: >Actually, it's been an action modifier since at least V:TES, and I think it >might have even been errata'd shortly after it was printed in Jyhad. It's >basically been an action modifier since before the dawn of recorded history >(circa 1997). The first reference I can find to it is from Tom Wylie talking to the "person who heads up keeping track of Jyhad rulings". It doesn't actually happen in: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3fsp88%246vj%40darkstar.UCSC.EDU [1995-01-21] which is mostly a "We think so, we're just going to check" type of post. It also happens in response to the thread being started by this really annoying person daring to get things changed by presenting reasoned arguments, textual analyses and comparisons with other, similar cards. And that man's name was L. Scott Johnson. There's probably a lesson to be drawn from this. -- James Coupe PGP 0x5D623D5D Don't just clap. What's the use of that? EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 You there, gorgeous creature. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D Stop...that...bus!

James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:<B16jTgE3...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk>... > In message <9ppr9.55689$gr6.54132@rwcrnsc53>, Chris Berger > <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes: > >Actually, it's been an action modifier since at least V:TES, and I think it > >might have even been errata'd shortly after it was printed in Jyhad. It's > >basically been an action modifier since before the dawn of recorded history > >(circa 1997). > > The first reference I can find to it is from Tom Wylie talking to the > "person who heads up keeping track of Jyhad rulings". It doesn't > actually happen in: > > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3fsp88%246vj%40darkstar.UCSC.EDU > > [1995-01-21] > > which is mostly a "We think so, we're just going to check" type of post. > It also happens in response to the thread being started by this really > annoying person daring to get things changed by presenting reasoned > arguments, textual analyses and comparisons with other, similar cards. > And that man's name was L. Scott Johnson. > > There's probably a lesson to be drawn from this. Mmm. I guess I was looking at my old Jyhad version. I have noticed that the Samedi will really benifit from HL and am planning on re-introducing the card to the local metagame after an extended hiatus. Anyway, I guess that I am still wondering if playing one 'after combat' action modifier precludes the playing of any other 'after combat' action modifiers. I am now guessing that this is OK since the neither of the card texts uses the word 'immediately,' but I would just like to be sure about it.

"James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:B16jTgE3...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk... > > And that man's name was L. Scott Johnson. > > There's probably a lesson to be drawn from this. > That LSJ was always a troublemaker? That LSJ should pay attention to us troublemakers because he was one himself? That abbreviating your name with 3 letters automatically makes you much more hip? ;) I like stories.

joe...@hotmail.com (Sebastian O) wrote in message news:<277c4600.02101...@posting.google.com>... [Hidden Lurker] > Mmm. I guess I was looking at my old Jyhad version. Yup. > I have noticed that the Samedi will really benifit from HL and What, precisely will you be doing with them that someone will want to bother blocking? > am planning on re-introducing the card to the local metagame > after an extended hiatus. Good luck... > Anyway, I guess that I am still wondering if playing one 'after > combat' action modifier precludes the playing of any other 'after > combat' action modifiers. I am now guessing that this is OK since the > neither of the card texts uses the word 'immediately,' but I would > just like to be sure about it. I'm sure LSJ has already answered this, but I can't think of any "after combat" action modifiers aside from Freak Drive, which can be played, IIRC. Hidden Lurker does, however, preclude Fast Reactions. Xian

"Xian" <xb...@qwest.net> wrote in message news:dbc1153.02101...@posting.google.com... > joe...@hotmail.com (Sebastian O) wrote in message news:<277c4600.02101...@posting.google.com>... > > > I have noticed that the Samedi will really benifit from HL and > > What, precisely will you be doing with them that someone will want to > bother blocking? > I think the standard answer here is bleeding with Laptops (which are facilitated by Hag's Wrinkles) and Computer Hacking. My own answer in a deck that was semi-decent but not good enough to bother keeping together, was to do that with fortitude weenies (or alternately presence weenies, which gives slightly more bleed power and almost as much combat defense - note that a few thanatosis cards have a presence split) and just have 1 or 2 Samedi as fire support (with 4 or 5 total Samedi in the crypt and a couple of Coroner's Contacts in the deck). It actually works fairly decent, but you jam up on action cards if they block you enough. And, of course, you have to include *some* rush so that you can rid your hand of combat once your prey gets smart enough to never block you. Someone with more decktuning skill than I could probably make it very scary, but I'm not sure it'd be scarier than straight-out presence or fortitude weenies *without* Samedi backup.

On Sat, 19 Oct 2002 23:22:03 GMT, "Chris Berger" <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: >"Xian" <xb...@qwest.net> wrote in message >news:dbc1153.02101...@posting.google.com... > >> What, precisely will you be doing with them that someone will want to >> bother blocking? >> >I think the standard answer here is bleeding with Laptops (which are >facilitated by Hag's Wrinkles) and Computer Hacking. Yeah, that's pretty good. Not amazing, but pretty good. :) I really like Laptop/Hag's Wrinkles. I had a Nosferatu Princes/Samedi deck that used that trick, along with votey goodness for Hag's Wrinkles/Freak Drive goodness. [for or pre weenies] >thanatosis cards have a presence split) and just have 1 or 2 Samedi as fire >support (with 4 or 5 total Samedi in the crypt and a couple of Coroner's >Contacts in the deck). Heh. Fire Support. >It actually works fairly decent, but you jam up on action cards if they block >you enough. And, of course, you have to include *some* rush so that you can >rid your hand of combat once your prey gets smart enough to never block you. >Someone with more decktuning skill than I could probably make it very scary, >but I'm not sure it'd be scarier than straight-out presence or fortitude >weenies *without* Samedi backup. Yeah, I'm not sure about that. I thnk that the best use for the Samedi (so far, anyway...and aside from a Baron deck) is to team them up with the Nosferatu and use their common disciplines to do...stuff. Xian

"Xian" <xi...@visi.nospam.com> wrote in message news:7l66ru0saeap7dc4c...@4ax.com... > > [for or pre weenies] > >thanatosis cards have a presence split) and just have 1 or 2 Samedi as fire > >support (with 4 or 5 total Samedi in the crypt and a couple of Coroner's > >Contacts in the deck). > > Heh. Fire Support. > I've been playing a lot of the 40K ccg lately, so, you know... 8) Actually a great game, if anyone's interested in my opinion of it. > >It actually works fairly decent, but you jam up on action cards if they block > >you enough. And, of course, you have to include *some* rush so that you can > >rid your hand of combat once your prey gets smart enough to never block you. > >Someone with more decktuning skill than I could probably make it very scary, > >but I'm not sure it'd be scarier than straight-out presence or fortitude > >weenies *without* Samedi backup. > > Yeah, I'm not sure about that. I thnk that the best use for the > Samedi (so far, anyway...and aside from a Baron deck) is to team them > up with the Nosferatu and use their common disciplines to do...stuff. > I dunno... the main thing that I hate about the Samedi is that Obfuscate is often almost a wasted discipline for them. Sure, they can stand to use Behind You! and Sacrificial Lamb, but other than that, it seems to be left out in the cold. Thanatosis is a halfway decent combat discipline, but it doesn't work that well with weapons, which makes Disguised Weapon mostly unnecessary, and just about the only other thing Obf can do is stealth, which is counter-productive for an otherwise combat-oriented clan. Hidden Lurker, on the other hand, combos very well with Thanatosis combat (well, with any combat at all, really), so it's tempting to try really hard to get Hidden Lurker into a deck. And when it works, it works great. I think that's one of the reasons I like Hidden Lurker so much as a card. High opportunity cost, but a high payoff. But yeah, Hidden Lurker seems like it could make the Samedi playable, but you have to be able to do something that people will block. And if you're gonna do something that heinous, you might as well just stealth it if you can. (Actually, people around here block too much... I might have to put back together the Samedi/weenie deck just to teach them a lesson. But I know it isn't like that everywhere.)

>I dunno... the main thing that I hate about the Samedi is that Obfuscate is >often almost a wasted discipline for them. Sure, they can stand to use >Behind >You! and Sacrificial Lamb, but other than that, it seems to be left out in >the >cold. Thanatosis is a halfway decent combat discipline, but it doesn't work >that well with weapons, which makes Disguised Weapon mostly unnecessary, and >just about the only other thing Obf can do is stealth, which is >counter-productive for an otherwise combat-oriented clan. The thing I ... sort of dislike is that Thanatosis is a waste of a discipline serving no real purpose to a clan with Fortitude and Obfuscate. Combat-oriented clan? And, if you want to use Thanatosis with weapons, could try Ashes to Ashes with Improvised Flamethrowers.

cur...@aol.commetal (Curevei) wrote in message news:<20021020231733...@mb-bg.aol.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] NO crap... WHy are people playing Samedhi as combat? They've got fortitude and obfuscate, the two biggest "I really don't want to be hurt" disciplines nex to presence. Of course what else do you do with them? Bleed at stealth? ~SV

"Chris Berger" <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message news:<IqJs9.35105$qM2.7165@sccrnsc02>... > I dunno... the main thing that I hate about the Samedi is that Obfuscate is > often almost a wasted discipline for them. Sure, they can stand to use Behind Yes. Well, I'm using Cloak & Forgotten Labyrinth in my Samedi + Daughters deck, but that's neither here nor there. And as Gomi has pointed out, the deck is kind of a nutpuncher. > You! and Sacrificial Lamb, but other than that, it seems to be left out in the > cold. Thanatosis is a halfway decent combat discipline, but it doesn't work It's about as good as Thaumaturgy, maybe a little worse. Which means "halfway decent," I guess. :) > that well with weapons, which makes Disguised Weapon mostly unnecessary, and > just about the only other thing Obf can do is stealth, which is > counter-productive for an otherwise combat-oriented clan. Yes, big problem. I'm thinking of maybe building a Samedi deck focusing on Obf/For/Nec, and just throw in a little bit of Thanatosis for flavor. Maybe a couple of Compress to scare people away. Hidden Lurker/Withering/Compress is so totally scary, but it's so hard to get it off. Argh. > Hidden Lurker, on the other hand, combos very well with Thanatosis combat > (well, with any combat at all, really), so it's tempting to try really hard to > get Hidden Lurker into a deck. And when it works, it works great. I think > that's one of the reasons I like Hidden Lurker so much as a card. High > opportunity cost, but a high payoff. Problem being that it's kind of a "reaction" card. Yeah, you use it on your turn, but you have to wait for someone else to do what you want them to in order to use it. Following the Ithaca school of thought, I tend to like playing so that my opponents have to adapt to my offense, rather than having to wait around to see what they're doing. Or something. > (Actually, people around here block too much... I might have to put back > together the Samedi/weenie deck just to teach them a lesson. But I know it > isn't like that everywhere.) Yes, this is another lesson I had to teach my playgroup a while back. Along with "Majesty != strong combat defense." I went about teaching them not to block everything with Dawn Op/Skin of Night/Weather Control. It's funny. And if they don't block, you can just bleed them for a pile. Then again, there's a good chance you recall the deck, as you corrected me on the name. :) Xian usually gets his New Order lyrics right...

>NO crap... WHy are people playing Samedhi as combat? They've got >fortitude and obfuscate, the two biggest "I really don't want to be >hurt" disciplines nex to presence. > >Of course what else do you do with them? Bleed at stealth? > ... and hunt.

> NO crap... WHy are people playing Samedhi as combat? They've got > fortitude and obfuscate, the two biggest "I really don't want to be > hurt" disciplines nex to presence. maybe because all of the thanatosis cards are combat cards. unfortunately i find them to be the least played bloodlines clan... maybe they're just not that fun to play with... tho i find Lithrac to be an amazing vampire... jds [ quoted text not captured ]

"Xian" <xb...@qwest.net> wrote in message news:dbc1153.02101...@posting.google.com > > Anyway, I guess that I am still wondering if playing one 'after > > combat' action modifier precludes the playing of any other 'after > > combat' action modifiers. I am now guessing that this is OK since the > > neither of the card texts uses the word 'immediately,' but I would > > just like to be sure about it. > > I'm sure LSJ has already answered this, but I can't think of any > "after combat" action modifiers aside from Freak Drive, which can be > played, IIRC. Hidden Lurker does, however, preclude Fast Reactions. I am not too sure about LSJ answering this already, but the esteemed James Coupe told me that you cannot play repeat Hidden Lurkers, as it specifies attacking a blocking minion. After the second combat, the minion being attacked ceases to be a blocking minion (probably just someone who is oppressed I assume) I do wonder about this now - I assume if you are playing one, then you are going to pull an improvised flamethrower or something with Hidden weapon to make sure of the job, as the minion cannot strike back. JK -- Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

In message <685cf93d9396649dcce...@mygate.mailgate.org>, John Keech <john.d...@virgin.net> writes: >I am not too sure about LSJ answering this already, but the esteemed >James Coupe told me that you cannot play repeat Hidden Lurkers, as it >specifies attacking a blocking minion. After the second combat, the >minion being attacked ceases to be a blocking minion (probably just >someone who is oppressed I assume) "Only usable after a combat between the acting minion you control and a blocking minion." (card text) "No. This is exactly what this terminology seeks to avoid. "The second Hidden Lurker cannot be played, since the combat (the first Hidden Lurker combat) doesn't involve the *acting* minion." [LSJ 19970610] http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=339D7321.167E%40regency.wizards.com Since Dimple was acting and got blocked, and then Thetmes Hidden Lurkered in afterwards, after the combat between Thetmes and the blocker, Thetmes is not "an acting minion you control". This does rely on people remembering that Hidden Lurker is an action *modifier* (which it has been for years). -- James Coupe PGP 0x5D623D5D uk.* Committee Elections in progress EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 13D7E668C3695D623D5D See uk.net.news.announce for more details

Well, I actually play with a Samedi deck which does quite well and it uses almost all the clans disciplines (NEC just for the stealth/intercept although), this is how is supposed to work: Obfuscate, for stealth, lot's of stealth used for bleeding my prey. At first, with lowcaps like Basil and Dimple computer-hacking each turn my prey, later, when my first Samedi is out, their mission is to rescue him from torpor, as I'll explain. Fortitude, especially for Forces Of Will :-) and a some prevention, when my first big Samedi is out (preferently TheBaron of course, or any other with +1 bleed), i use Thanatosis (Hag Wrinckle's) for equiping him with a laptop and the recruit a Tasha or a JSimmons, after that, Force Of Will. Use obfuscate to ensure it'll bleed and it's turn now for the lowcaps obf minions to stop bleeding and start rescuing their master from torpor :-) Finally, try yo influence another Samedi (Lythrac is perfect for that) and keep him for blocking your predator, with Hag Wrinckles you should be able to equip him well, sport Bikes and a weapon will be right. Keep some prevention in hand and maybe a nasty Compress for a surprise !!! Also, someone pointed the good Improvised + Ashes to Ashes combo. Lately, I've tried to play them in a more combat oriented way and I assure thanatosis is a really nasty combat discipline!! add some restorations since it's cards have a big cost... Well, I must say it's not easy to play this deck, It has taken me a lot of time to make it work !!! But it's my favorite clan in the game so I had no choice :-) but I enjoy it a lot !!!! And my last tactic is that usually (except with my friends) nobody expects a Samedi in the table and nobody knows what they are going to do, whatch their faces when u influence out TheBaron and start bleeding for 6 each !!!! ORi.

"Chris Berger" <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message news:<IqJs9.35105$qM2.7165@sccrnsc02>... [ quoted text not captured ] Um... you could always use Vanish with the Mind's Eye or Fade from View and Swalloded by the Night, Fear of the Void Below which give presses and maneuvers. (Disguised) Weapons can be combined with Infection at sup. and Rigour Mortis. Don't forget the (weird) combat card Elemental Stoicism. BTW, who says Samedhi are combat oriented? > But yeah, Hidden Lurker seems like it could make the Samedi playable, but you > have to be able to do something that people will block. And if you're gonna do > something that heinous, you might as well just stealth it if you can. > (Actually, people around here block too much... I might have to put back > together the Samedi/weenie deck just to teach them a lesson. But I know it > isn't like that everywhere.) Once you pull off that combo once, you'll only need it, like, one other time (that time being when you're doing the action that ousts them). ~SV

"Chris Berger" <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message news:<fIGr9.64971$gr6.59893@rwcrnsc53>... [ quoted text not captured ] Yes that last one. ~SV PS But abbreviating your name in two is that much more hip (except that its not really my name... so I'm not REALLY hip after all...)

James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:<d$4Exwnn+...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk>... > In message <685cf93d9396649dcce...@mygate.mailgate.org>, > John Keech <john.d...@virgin.net> writes: > >I am not too sure about LSJ answering this already, but the esteemed > >James Coupe told me that you cannot play repeat Hidden Lurkers, as it > >specifies attacking a blocking minion. After the second combat, the > >minion being attacked ceases to be a blocking minion (probably just > >someone who is oppressed I assume) > > "Only usable after a combat between the acting minion you control and a > blocking minion." (card text) > > > "No. This is exactly what this terminology seeks to avoid. > > "The second Hidden Lurker cannot be played, since the combat (the > first Hidden Lurker combat) doesn't involve the *acting* minion." > [LSJ 19970610] > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=339D7321.167E%40regency.wizards.com > > > Since Dimple was acting and got blocked, and then Thetmes Hidden > Lurkered in afterwards, after the combat between Thetmes and the > blocker, Thetmes is not "an acting minion you control". > > This does rely on people remembering that Hidden Lurker is an action > *modifier* (which it has been for years). Um... What happens when two of my minions try to simultaneously play a hidden lurker? Which one enters combat (my choice as I can order things as I choose during my turn)? Is this legal (great for cycling if so)? ~SV

vermillian wrote: > Um... What happens when two of my minions try to simultaneously play a > hidden lurker? Which one enters combat (my choice as I can order > things as I choose during my turn)? Is this legal (great for cycling > if so)? One of them plays it first. You decide. The other cannot play it at all (unless the first is canceled). [ quoted text not captured ]

o...@bbs-ce.uab.es (ORi) wrote in message news:<73b37c5e.02102...@posting.google.com>... > Fortitude, especially for Forces Of Will :-) and a some prevention, > when my first big Samedi is out (preferently TheBaron of course, or > any other with +1 bleed), i use Thanatosis (Hag Wrinckle's) for > equiping him with a laptop and the recruit a Tasha or a JSimmons, > after that, Force Of Will. Use obfuscate to ensure it'll bleed and > it's turn now for the lowcaps obf minions to stop bleeding and start > rescuing their master from torpor :-) <snip> So what happens when you get deflected, and now you're bleeding your grandprey for 6 bleed at stealth?

In article <704f42d0.02102...@posting.google.com>, dancingmummy <mummydi...@hotmail.com> wrote: >o...@bbs-ce.uab.es (ORi) wrote in message news:<73b37c5e.02102...@posting.google.com>... >> Fortitude, especially for Forces Of Will :-) and a some prevention, >> when my first big Samedi is out (preferently TheBaron of course, or >> any other with +1 bleed), i use Thanatosis (Hag Wrinckle's) for >> equiping him with a laptop and the recruit a Tasha or a JSimmons, >> after that, Force Of Will. Use obfuscate to ensure it'll bleed and >> it's turn now for the lowcaps obf minions to stop bleeding and start >> rescuing their master from torpor :-) >So what happens when you get deflected, and now you're bleeding your >grandprey for 6 bleed at stealth? Spying Mission comes to mind. If the bleed isn't Force of Will, but just a vanilla cardless bleed backed up with Laptops/retainers, Mask of a Thousand Faces to switch over to an obf weenie with an unenhanced bleed is also a good solution. With Force of Will, you can't Mask unless it's a for/obf (hm, can you Mask Force of Will at all? The would-be Masker isn't tapped (and thus doesn't qualify for Force) before playing Mask, but is tapped after), which is a bit tricker to manage. gomi -- Peace is generally good in itself, but it is never the highest good unless it comes as the handmaid of righteousness; and it becomes a very evil thing if it serves merely as a mask for cowardice and sloth, or as an instrument to further the ends of despotism or anarchy. --Theodore Roosevelt

In article <ap7c30$ho0$1...@panix1.panix.com>, Gomi no Sensei <go...@panix.com> wrote: >(hm, can you Mask Force of Will at all? The >would-be Masker isn't tapped (and thus doesn't qualify for Force) before >playing Mask, but is tapped after) wups, should have checked first. The answer is 'no', per RTR20020927, at http://groups.google.com/groups?q=msgid%3a3D9464C...@white-wolf.com. [ quoted text not captured ]

> So what happens when you get deflected, and now you're bleeding your > grandprey for 6 bleed at stealth? Well, the usual procedure is as follows: 1. Stare at your prey as he deflects your bleeding whispering "you stupid ----- ----- ------" (*) Put there your favorite insult 2. Tell ur grandprey how much sorry u are Well, actually as I said, it's not an easy deck to play with, against deflection decks I usually tend to add some spying mission (as someone pointed) and don't play FoW too often, instead, I use my lowcaps minions to keep computer-hacking my prey (maybe getting a laptop) and use the big Samedy guy more oriented to combat. Also, the big Samedi ready for a +4 bleed may help the lowcaps in their succed for small bleeds since my prey will expect it to bleed and keep a minion ready for the deflection. But as I said, my deck it's not a winner deck, I've tried to do the best It can be done with the clan Samedi and I'm very proud of it. I usually win some games but those wins worth a lot for me !!!! ORi

I just noticed these 2 both have basic celerity. Jorge De La Muerte, The Agent Capacity: 7 Inferior Celerity Inferior Fortitude Inferior Necromancy Superior Obfuscate Superior Thanatosis Jorge gets +1 bleed when bleeding a Methuselah who controls a ready Sabbat vampire. Jack Dawson Inferior Celerity Inferior Fortitude Inferior Necromancy Superior Obfuscate Superior Thanatosis Ability: Jorge gets +1 bleed when bleeding a Methuselah who controls a ready Sabbat vampire I feel like I have to make some conclusion about that. Could perhaps construct a combat deck focusing on them. Use hidden lurker and withering to prevent combat ends. Use celerity for additional strikes. Freak drive for additional actions. Putrefecation makes a good basic strike. Compress too if you can afford it. It seems you could easily build a better samedi combat deck, but there has to be one Thanatosis/Celerity deck. Wisefool Mercuriel

>I just noticed these 2 both have basic celerity. >Jorge De La Muerte, The Agent >Jack Dawson >I feel like I have to make some conclusion about that. Could perhaps >construct a combat deck focusing on them. Use hidden lurker and >withering to prevent combat ends. Use celerity for additional >strikes. Freak drive for additional actions. Putrefecation makes a >good basic strike. Compress too if you can afford it. It seems you >could easily build a better samedi combat deck, but there has to be >one Thanatosis/Celerity deck. I think two locals built Withering Celerity decks; I played against one of them. The idea hasn't been used in quite some time. I think it had to do with the deck not being that good.