LSJ: Sabbat War-related rules questions

These came up at the NJ prerelease: they were prompted by Sabbat War cards (obviously) but aren't entirely attributable to new cards. First one: How does the "before range is determined" time period work? Is it "acting methuselah does something or declines, reacting methuselah does something or declines, if two declines happen in a row go to maneuver determination" or something else? The example: player 1 has a Purchase Pact in play. He sends a vampire to bleed player 2. Player 2 blocks with some scary vampire. If player 1 says "I do nothing before range" and player 2 responds "I do nothing before range", does player 1 then have the opportunity to decide then to use Purchase Pact to end combat? Or does player 2's decision not to play any pre-range cards mean that they have moved on to the maneuver step? It seems clear that if player 2 actually *does* do something before range (play Carrion Crows for example), player 1 will then have the opportunity to respond by using the Purchase Pact. But if player 1 tries to draw out the Crows and player 2 doesn't take the bait, can he still use the Purchase Pact? Second one: Some location is being contested by Political Seizure. The methuselah owning the original location is ousted. Does the Political Seizure grab that card as it is yielded and put it under the Seizer's control, or is it unable to do so since the card is going out of game at the same time that it's yielded? Thanks, Josh Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Joshua Duffin <jt...@cornell.edu> wrote: > First one: How does the "before range is determined" time > period work? Is it "acting methuselah does something or > declines, reacting methuselah does something or declines, > if two declines happen in a row go to maneuver determination" Yes. > The example: player 1 has a Purchase Pact in play. He > sends a vampire to bleed player 2. Player 2 blocks with > some scary vampire. If player 1 says "I do nothing before > range" and player 2 responds "I do nothing before range", > does player 1 then have the opportunity to decide then to > use Purchase Pact to end combat? Or does player 2's decision No. > not to play any pre-range cards mean that they have moved > on to the maneuver step? Yes. > It seems clear that if player 2 actually *does* do something > before range (play Carrion Crows for example), player 1 > will then have the opportunity to respond by using the > Purchase Pact. But if player 1 tries to draw out the Crows Yes. > and player 2 doesn't take the bait, can he still use the > Purchase Pact? No. > Second one: Some location is being contested by Political > Seizure. The methuselah owning the original location is > ousted. Does the Political Seizure grab that card as it is > yielded and put it under the Seizer's control,[...]? Yes. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, Joshua Duffin wrote: > These came up at the NJ prerelease: they were prompted > by Sabbat War cards (obviously) but aren't entirely > attributable to new cards. > > First one: How does the "before range is determined" time > period work? Is it "acting methuselah does something or > declines, reacting methuselah does something or declines, > if two declines happen in a row go to maneuver determination" > or something else? Basically. Except, every time either player does something, the acting player gets the next opportunity to do something. So the acting player can play multiple cards in a row, or play one after the second player. As you say, if I decline to do something and you, as reacter, decline to do something, I can't then do anything, and neither can you. Go to Set Range. -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D "And all the while I'm thinking things that I can never share with him. I'm a bundle of confusion, yet it has a strange appeal. Did it all begin with him and the way he makes me feel?"

Drake Coker wrote: > >"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message > >> Joshua Duffin <jt...@cornell.edu> wrote: > > > First one: How does the "before range is determined" time > > > period work? Is it "acting methuselah does something or > > > declines, reacting methuselah does something or declines, > > > if two declines happen in a row go to maneuver determination" > > > > Yes. > > While this is clearly the best way to play, the note on page 36 of the new rulebook > implies otherwise and should probably be edited next time around. Quote: > "Note: Effects which are played 'before range is determined' must be played before > the acting minion decides whether or not to play a manuever at the start of this phase". If one Meth (the acting one, who always gets first shot) chooses not to play a "before range" effect and the other chooses not to as well, then you move on to maneuvers. This is consistent with the rulebook. > Since the acting Methuselah always gets the first choice, this text implies that she could > prevent the blocking minion from playing a "before range is determined" card by simply > declaring range. Alternatively, this could be read that the blocking minion has to play > quickly - probably not what is intended either. No, first she has to decline to play any "before range" effects, since she has the first opportunity to play such effects. > Also, do I read correctly that we are going back to the pre-V:TES way of > handling aggravated > damage? Pretty close, only the "packeting" problem of pre-VTES is not carried over. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. [ quoted text not captured ]

>"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:8tlinh$tn6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com... >> Joshua Duffin <jt...@cornell.edu> wrote: > > First one: How does the "before range is determined" time > > period work? Is it "acting methuselah does something or > > declines, reacting methuselah does something or declines, > > if two declines happen in a row go to maneuver determination" > > Yes. > While this is clearly the best way to play, the note on page 36 of the new rulebook implies otherwise and should probably be edited next time around. Quote: "Note: Effects which are played 'before range is determined' must be played before the acting minion decides whether or not to play a manuever at the start of this phase". Since the acting Methuselah always gets the first choice, this text implies that she could prevent the blocking minion from playing a "before range is determined" card by simply declaring range. Alternatively, this could be read that the blocking minion has to play quickly - probably not what is intended either. Also, do I read correctly that we are going back to the pre-V:TES way of handling aggravated damage? - Drake