rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Xaviar, Eye of Hazimel, and Wind Dance

37 messages from 21 participants · 26 August 2002 – 01 September 2002
original thread on Google Groups

LSJ

There are three cards floating about that are the topic of quite a few conversations: Xaviar Eye of Hazimel Wind Dance Officially, those cards don't exist, since they have not been officially released yet. But apparently there was a slip up at the printer and a very small number of those cards have been accidentally included in various Camarilla Edition preconstructed starters. So, they aren't fakes, but they aren't official, either. They will not be legal for inclusion in any VEKN tournament (until such time as they are officially released, of course). If you have rules questions about using them in your house games, I'll be happy to field those. Questions about the timetable for the official release of those will have to wait until the official answers are available, of course. We'll announce the release schedule when it is ready. Sorry for the confusion, Scott -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Peter Oh

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3D6A39DB...@white-wolf.com... > There are three cards floating about that are the topic of quite > a few conversations: > > Xaviar > Eye of Hazimel > Wind Dance Ok, I've seen the scanned image of Xaviar and the supposed card text of the Eye of Hazimel, but this is the first I've heard of a card called Wind Dance. A quick, not so thorough search of Google didn't turn up anything. Anyone know what this card does or have card text? Peteo

reyda

[ quoted text not captured ] It's a thaumaturgy card : combat card. cost no blood inferior = strike : dodge superior = strike : dodge with an additional strike : dodge this round reyda

reyda

LSJ wrote: > There are three cards floating about that are the topic of quite > a few conversations: (snip) > If you have rules questions about using them in your house games, > I'll be happy to field those. (snip) > Sorry for the confusion, > Scott This is a smart move. Thank you for acknowledging and keeping us informed, really =)

Ole

I knew it! Great job on Xaviar btw, LSJ! Take care, Bookworm55

Wouter Kuyper

> snip some info > Xaviar > Eye of Hazimel > Wind Dance > > > If you have rules questions about using them in your house games, > I'll be happy to field those. > Ok, the first 2 i read the texts of; what does Wind Dance? Wouter

reyda

[ quoted text not captured ] It's a thaumaturgy card : combat card. cost no blood inferior = strike : dodge superior = strike : dodge with an additional strike : dodge this round reyda (are you blind or something ?)

Immortalgrapplecards

"reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3d6aa11c$0$15027$79c1...@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net... [ quoted text not captured ] Don't forget the time delay some people have with the newsgroup. Errol

Sacha

> This is a smart move. Thank you for acknowledging and keeping us informed, > really =) Strongly agree. It is a shame that they were relesaed early, but at least ww is willing to admit their mistake and prevent a gagle of misinfermation. Pc.

Chris Berger

"reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3d6a5064$0$6552$79c1...@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net... > > It's a thaumaturgy card : > > combat card. cost no blood > > inferior = strike : dodge > superior = strike : dodge with an additional strike : dodge this round > I once proposed an OPT card that required Auspex, was called Combat Reflexes, and had the exact same effect. Actually, it was eventually removed because it was "too weak", so I doubt the thaumaturgy version will be too world-changing. Truthfully, I have no idea why I posted this, as probably no one cares at all about cards that were proposed but never accepted into an expansion set that is in no way official and will never see print. But hey... ;) Anway, there are a few OPTers still hanging around (James, Xian, and Gomi, off the top of my head), and we have already had one card printed with the same effect but different name, and several cards, which may have been coincidence, printed with a similar effect and similar title, or same title and different effect.

Chris Berger

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3D6A39DB...@white-wolf.com... > There are three cards floating about that are the topic of quite > a few conversations: > > Officially, those cards don't exist, since they have not been officially > released yet. But apparently there was a slip up at the printer and > a very small number of those cards have been accidentally included in > various Camarilla Edition preconstructed starters. > As other people have said... the info is appreciated. Thanks. Oh, and BTW... it was nice meeting you again at Gen Con. Although I assume the meeting will make as much impression on you as our previous meetings... i.e. you won't remember it at all. But that's okay. It's probably actually better, considering what an ass I can occasionally be on the NG. =P You'll forgive me, right? ...right?

Ped Xing

LSJ: Thanks for the official acknowledgement. I have some general questions about printing which I will understand if you cannot answer (I figure someone on the board may know though). Obviously the printer for this set did a less than satisfactory job, between the inclusion of yet-to-be-released cards, and the weird submachine gun replaced with spying mission in the Malkavian starter, bloodlines cards being included in starters, and the other more general complaints about "the smell." Do companies bid on printing jobs in situations like this? Is there a contract involved? Is a different printing company used from set to set? What company printed this set? Has this company printed previous sets? If not, why the change? Also if not what company/ies printed previous sets? Could WW receive renumeration for all of the clearly obvious mistakes in this particular situation? Could this ultimately impact the cost of the cards on the consumer's end? I understand that on any printing job there is a margin of error that can be expected, minor misprints and so forth are unfortunate but not unusual. This situation seems a bit more serious, tatamount to releasing confidential or protected company product secrets. I anticipate some of the responses to this: Xaviar is clearly copyrighted if unofficial, making him unstealable by copyright law and etc. Not playable in tournaments, etc etc. Yes all you rules lawayers of course. All correct. HOWEVER, the first "C" in CCG stands for "COLLECTIBLE." Our awareness of Xaviar (and other yet-to-be-released cards) as collecters impacts the marketability and demand of those cards. I anticipate seeing a Xaviar on ebay go for a chunk of change sometime in the future (argue all you want about whether somone is foolish enough to purchase an "unplayable" card, there is always someone on ebay making a poor bidding decision just to complete his collection). In this case, a card included by the error of the printer, a card for which WW has not really officially sold to anyone, is making some shrewd lucky bastard a wad of dough, a wad WW won't see a cent of. Any thoughts?

Xian

"Chris Berger" <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message news:DDya9.285062$sA3.5...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net... [to LSJ] > Oh, and BTW... it was nice meeting you again at Gen Con. Although I assume the > meeting will make as much impression on you as our previous meetings... i.e. > you won't remember it at all. But that's okay. It's probably actually better, > considering what an ass I can occasionally be on the NG. =P You'll forgive > me, right? ...right? If he remembers you. :P Xian not remembering anything right now...

Wouter Kuyper

> > reyda > (are you blind or something ?) Well, as a matter of fact.... no it's just that damned delay....never noticed that my responses were always terribly late? W

reyda

[ quoted text not captured ] i'll know next time =)

LSJ

Ped Xing wrote: > > LSJ: Thanks for the official acknowledgement. > > I have some general questions about printing which I will understand > if you cannot answer (I figure someone on the board may know though). > > Obviously the printer for this set did a less than satisfactory job, > between the inclusion of yet-to-be-released cards, and the weird > submachine gun replaced with spying mission in the Malkavian starter, > bloodlines cards being included in starters, and the other more > general complaints about "the smell." The last item is psychosomatic. The same inks, cardsstock, and printing process was used in all the WW VTES expansions. > Do companies bid on printing jobs in situations like this? > Is there a contract involved? > Is a different printing company used from set to set? No. > What company printed this set? > Has this company printed previous sets? Yes. > If not, why the change? > Also if not what company/ies printed previous sets? > Could WW receive renumeration for all of the clearly obvious mistakes > in this particular situation? The printer has offered to make up for the shortcomings, yes. > Could this ultimately impact the cost of the cards on the consumer's > end? > > I understand that on any printing job there is a margin of error that > can be expected, minor misprints and so forth are unfortunate but not > unusual. This situation seems a bit more serious, tatamount to > releasing confidential or protected company product secrets. > > I anticipate some of the responses to this: Xaviar is clearly > copyrighted if unofficial, making him unstealable by copyright law and > etc. Not playable in tournaments, etc etc. Yes all you rules lawayers > of course. All correct. > > HOWEVER, the first "C" in CCG stands for "COLLECTIBLE." Our awareness > of Xaviar (and other yet-to-be-released cards) as collecters impacts > the marketability and demand of those cards. I anticipate seeing a > Xaviar on ebay go for a chunk of change sometime in the future (argue > all you want about whether somone is foolish enough to purchase an > "unplayable" card, there is always someone on ebay making a poor > bidding decision just to complete his collection). In this case, a > card included by the error of the printer, a card for which WW has not > really officially sold to anyone, is making some shrewd lucky bastard > a wad of dough, a wad WW won't see a cent of. WW doesn't usually see "a cent" from any promo card - that's the nature of cards that are distributed for promotional purposes. [ quoted text not captured ]

Orpheus

> WW doesn't usually see "a cent" from any promo card - that's the nature > of cards that are distributed for promotional purposes. So you're saying the Xaviar and the Eye are / will be promo cards ? Any "storyline" event to be expected ? CuriousOrpheus

Sten During

LSJ wrote: > Ped Xing wrote: > >>LSJ: Thanks for the official acknowledgement. >> >>I have some general questions about printing which I will understand >>if you cannot answer (I figure someone on the board may know though). >> >>Obviously the printer for this set did a less than satisfactory job, >>between the inclusion of yet-to-be-released cards, and the weird >>submachine gun replaced with spying mission in the Malkavian starter, >>bloodlines cards being included in starters, and the other more >>general complaints about "the smell." >> > > The last item is psychosomatic. The same inks, cardsstock, and printing > process was used in all the WW VTES expansions. > What has changed from expansion to expansion is boosterpackcovers. New glue for sealing them? Sten During

Chris Berger

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3D6B6566...@white-wolf.com... > Ped Xing wrote: > > > Obviously the printer for this set did a less than satisfactory job, > > between the inclusion of yet-to-be-released cards, and the weird > > submachine gun replaced with spying mission in the Malkavian starter, > > bloodlines cards being included in starters, and the other more > > general complaints about "the smell." > > The last item is psychosomatic. The same inks, cardsstock, and printing > process was used in all the WW VTES expansions. > I dunno... in continuing my previous taste-test (to review... Tortured Confessions rated most highly, Twisting the Knife not so good), I attempted to consume a CE discipline/clan symbol card. I had barely inserted it into my mouth when my tongue began to burn, and so I immediately discontinued the experiment and washed my mouth out with cold water. In short... it tastes like burning. Definitely a bad vintage. Perhaps it will improve with age.

Ped Xing

"Chris Berger" <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message news:<BgNa9.197508$983.370304@rwcrnsc53>... > In short... it tastes like burning. Definitely a bad vintage. Perhaps it will > improve with age. The taste? Well that's the secret ingredient added to the ink. What secret ingredient, you ask? Love.

Steve Wieck

> Strongly agree. It is a shame that they were relesaed early, but at > least ww is willing to admit their mistake and prevent a gagle of > misinfermation. Admit our printer's mistake <grumble> <grumble> <curse> Steve

Steve Wieck

"Orpheus" <orph...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:akfpd6$9kh$1...@wanadoo.fr... [ quoted text not captured ] Keep your "eyes" peeled for one...

Steve Wieck

I would add to Scott's comments that all 3 cards will eventually be available as promo cards in reasonable quantity. So anyone who wants to pay ridiculous amounts for one of the mistakenly released ones now, be aware that the price will surely drop once the cards are released. Steve Wieck White Wolf

Curevei

[ quoted text not captured ] Speaking of quantities of promos, will there be more events with Meddling available?

LSJ

[ quoted text not captured ] Meddlings will not be distributed until at least March 2003 - after the stated one year time period given at the time of the Meddling prerelease events. After that, the left-over supply of Meddlings will be released through as-yet-unspecified promotional (i.e., non-retail) means. [ quoted text not captured ]

Shawn D

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3D6B6566...@white-wolf.com>... > Ped Xing wrote: > > Obviously the printer for this set did a less than satisfactory job, > > between the inclusion of yet-to-be-released cards, and the weird > > submachine gun replaced with spying mission in the Malkavian starter, > > bloodlines cards being included in starters, and the other more > > general complaints about "the smell." > > The last item is psychosomatic. The same inks, cardsstock, and printing > process was used in all the WW VTES expansions. I politely beg to differ, LSJ. I'm aware of what psychosomatic effects are and how they work. In this instance though, I strongly argue that the smell is a distinct and recognizable trait and not a psychologically derived aversion to "The Camarilla Edition". *shrugs* -Shawn D

Mike McDonald

> > The taste? Well that's the secret ingredient added to the ink. > What secret ingredient, you ask? > > > Love. After all, love is a many splendored thing, love lifts us up where we belong, All you need is love! *From a guy who wishes he could serenade Nicole Kidman, and likes Moulin Rouge a suprising amount for a movie without a major body count or Orcs <g>*

salem

ped_...@hotmail.com (Ped Xing) wrote in message news:<51ecf271.02082...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] hee hee hee. that made me laugh out loud...erm, sorry..usenet...umm..that made me LOL. reminded me of a cafe i used to frequent where one of the waiters used to tell us he put extra "love" in our coffees. after about a month someone finally brought up the point that we were drinking cappuccinos, and putting "love" in a cappuccino might be construed as, well....that's when the conversation hit the gutter and i stopped going to the cafe regularly..... salem.

reyda

salem wrote: > reminded me of a cafe i used to frequent where one of the waiters > used to tell us he put extra "love" in our coffees. after about a > month someone finally brought up the point that we were drinking > cappuccinos, and putting "love" in a cappuccino might be construed > as, well....that's when the conversation hit the gutter and i > stopped going to the cafe regularly..... shame on you =p

Joshua Duffin

"Chris Berger" <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message news:BgNa9.197508$983.370304@rwcrnsc53... > I dunno... in continuing my previous taste-test (to review... Tortured > Confessions rated most highly, Twisting the Knife not so good), I attempted to > consume a CE discipline/clan symbol card. I had barely inserted it into my > mouth when my tongue began to burn, and so I immediately discontinued the > experiment and washed my mouth out with cold water. > > In short... it tastes like burning. Definitely a bad vintage. Perhaps it will > improve with age. hee! "Eww, Daddy, this tastes like Gramma!" Josh camarilla edition: not for breakfast anymore

Raille

Chris Berger wrote: > > Anway, there are a few OPTers still hanging around (James, Xian, and Gomi, off > the top of my head), and we have already had one card printed with the same > effect but different name, and several cards, which may have been coincidence, > printed with a similar effect and similar title, or same title and different > effect. > > And me. Don't forget me! Raille OPT'd for Life

XZealot

"Steve Wieck" <steve...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:UbTa9.79321$%v4.32...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Well, look at the good side. At least, there are no more "Dumba$$, Is Anarchs going to be group 4 threads." Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr. XZealot Archon of the Swamp

Chris Berger

"Raille" <rai...@mich.com> wrote in message news:3D6D5CE6...@mich.com... > > And me. Don't forget me! > > Raille > OPT'd for Life > Heh... Hi Dave! 8) You down with OPT? Yeah, you know me... =P~~~

Orpheus

"salem" <salem_ch...@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message news: 293af2cc.02082...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Anyone who saw Fight Club would have known what kind of lovely milk he added in... -- Orpheus "I believe that life is a game, that life is a cruel joke, and that life is what happens when you're alive and that you might as well lie back and enjoy it". Neil Gaiman

Raille

[ quoted text not captured ] Yup. I had some emails with Steve about doing something, anything with the online playtested cards. However due to some legal constraints, WW can't do anything with them. :( However. If our own Damnans could create some cards for us, I would host the created online set and use them for local House rules games. (hint - hint) Raille

Damnans

Raille wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] I could help create them (with Gonzalo's and others' help too, of course). But perhaps we should wait until we have the new card templates available. LMK. Greetings, Damnans

Immortalgrapplecards

"Steve Wieck" <steve...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:UbTa9.79321$%v4.32...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com... [ quoted text not captured ] DAM Canadians what the hell are they doing up there! Errol