Updated rules:
Reflex: A minion can play a reflex card to cancel a specified kind of
card played against him as it is played. The minion need not be
untapped or even ready to play the reflex card. The cost of the card,
if any, is paid as normal, even for the reflex usage.
Ousted cards: If you are ousted, all the cards you control are removed
from the game. (Not burned, just removed from the game.)
New Abombwe card: Predator's Transformation
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/images/CardLoB11.jpg
Predator's taint
Action Modifier/Combat
Abombwe
[abo][Reflex] Cancel a frenzy card played on this vampire as it is
played.
[abo][Modifier] Only usable as the action is announced. +1 stealth,
even if stealth is not yet needed.
[ABO]{Modifier][Combat] Only usable when this vampire burns a minion
controlled by your prey, either in combat or as a (D) action. Your
prey burns two pool. A vampire may play only one Predator's
Transformation at superior each action.
Versatile.
The question here I think is: will those cards that already exist that
can cancel other combat cards (like Disengage and Groundfighting) be
also errataed/updated to Reflex cards?
Dan
Ok, so I don't really see (before seeing other Reflex cards) why this
entirely new type of card had to be created. Couldn't it just be a
combat card? Maybe I'll know better when I see other Reflex cards...
Dan
[ quoted text not captured ]
A combat card could not be played against, say, Brujah Frenzy (assuming
the Brujah could play Abombwe-requiring cards like Predator's
Transformation).
> Ok, so I don't really see (before seeing other Reflex cards) why this
> entirely new type of card had to be created. Couldn't it just be a
> combat card? Maybe I'll know better when I see other Reflex cards...
>
As far as I can tell, it's just a new keyword with a symbol.
Got it. It's still looks too cornercase to require a new type of card
to be created, but as I said, I'd like to see more Reflex cards before
I go with that. Anyway, I usually like new mechanics and card types...
Dan
In message <1129736885.2...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Dragos <dra...@uol.com.br> writes:
>Got it.
It would be helpful if you quoted the text to which you are responding,
so we know what it is you get. :-(
>It's still looks too cornercase to require a new type of card
>to be created,
Bear in mind that LSJ has said that these are intended to be an extra on
the cards that use them.
The amount of text you need to explain what is being cancelled, the
timing of it and who may play it could well get quite large - especially
since the Reflex template doesn't necessarily have to be applied to
combat effects.
At that point, you probably want to limit the amount of text needed so
that the Reflex ability can be short, and the rest of the card can have
more of the card text devoted to it.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
>Ousted cards: If you are ousted, all the cards you control are removed
from the game. (Not burned, just removed from the game.)
Why is did knew rule needed? i dont want a spoiler, but are any cards
available now that are going to change it's mechanic?
> Predator's taint
> Action Modifier/Combat
> Abombwe
> [abo][Reflex] Cancel a frenzy card played on this vampire as it is
> played.
> [abo][Modifier] Only usable as the action is announced. +1 stealth,
> even if stealth is not yet needed.
> [ABO]{Modifier][Combat] Only usable when this vampire burns a minion
> controlled by your prey, either in combat or as a (D) action. Your
> prey burns two pool. A vampire may play only one Predator's
> Transformation at superior each action.
>
> Versatile.
If you can burn more then 1 minion in a (D) Action, does your prey burn
2 pool each?
(how can that happen?!? If he has alot of allies via something like A
Army, and you do damage to all them all at once to kill multiple at one
(D) Action)
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, LSJ wrote:
> Omael wrote:>>> Ousted cards: If you are ousted, all the cards you control are removed
>>> from the game. (Not burned, just removed from the game.)>> The new ruling avoids the need for such unnatural contortions (and,
> possibly related, makes more sense).
>
Except in the case of Necromancy, which would have been able to retrieve
cards played on his prey's minions as part of his ousting strategy.
[ quoted text not captured ]
I don't find that to be an exception, either.
A minion no longer controlled (or rather, controlled by an ineffectual
(ousted) Methuselah) is no more burned than one controlled by an active
Methuselah. Likewise any cards on him.
Consider it akin to Banishing all of his minions (and locations, etc.)
>> Predator's taint
>> Action Modifier/Combat
>> Abombwe
>> [abo][Reflex] Cancel a frenzy card played on this vampire as it is
>> played.
>> [abo][Modifier] Only usable as the action is announced. +1 stealth,
>> even if stealth is not yet needed.
>> [ABO]{Modifier][Combat] Only usable when this vampire burns a minion
>> controlled by your prey, either in combat or as a (D) action. Your
>> prey burns two pool. A vampire may play only one Predator's
>> Transformation at superior each action.
>>
>> Versatile.>
> If you can burn more then 1 minion in a (D) Action, does your prey burn
> 2 pool each?
>
You'd have to do it *as* a (D) action, following the card text.
> (how can that happen?!? If he has alot of allies via something like A
> Army, and you do damage to all them all at once to kill multiple at one
> (D) Action)
>
Currently, it cannot happen.
In message <1129746610....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
kulaid871 <Kula...@yahoo.com> writes:
>> [ABO]{Modifier][Combat] Only usable when this vampire burns a minion
>> controlled by your prey, either in combat or as a (D) action. Your
>> prey burns two pool. A vampire may play only one Predator's
>> Transformation at superior each action.
>>
>> Versatile.>
>If you can burn more then 1 minion in a (D) Action, does your prey burn
>2 pool each?
No, it says "Burn 2 pool" not "Burn 2 pool for each minion that burns."
[ quoted text not captured ]
[ quoted text not captured ]
Sure it can. Edged Illusion will kill Procurers by the zillions. It's a
valid question. An ABO/CHI minion could pull this off (such as the one
already previewed equipped with the Eye of Hazimel). All he needs is a
prey with a bunch of 1-life allies.
Looks to me like even if a couple dozen minions are burned, Predator's
Taint will still only cause 2 pool loss. It's not possible to play more
than one and the card doesn't suggest that the pool loss can occur
multiple times on a single action.
Matt Morgan
> Looks to me like even if a couple dozen minions are burned, Predator's
> Taint will still only cause 2 pool loss. It's not possible to play more
> than one and the card doesn't suggest that the pool loss can occur
> multiple times on a single action.
I believe you could use it multiple times on the same action with Mask
of 1000 Faces (in the same way as Venenation).
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, XZealot wrote:
>>> Looks to me like even if a couple dozen minions are burned, Predator's
>> Taint will still only cause 2 pool loss. It's not possible to play more
>> than one and the card doesn't suggest that the pool loss can occur
>> multiple times on a single action.>
> I believe you could use it multiple times on the same action with Mask
> of 1000 Faces (in the same way as Venenation).
Yup, I guess you're right. I'm sure that'll be a popular deck in 2006.
Matt Morgan
XZealot wrote:
> > Looks to me like even if a couple dozen minions are burned, Predator's
> > Taint will still only cause 2 pool loss. It's not possible to play more
> > than one and the card doesn't suggest that the pool loss can occur
> > multiple times on a single action.
>
> I believe you could use it multiple times on the same action with Mask
> of 1000 Faces (in the same way as Venenation).
Except that Mask cannot be played after action resolution.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Mask is played in the same window that Predator's Transformation is
played, which is played after action resolution.
[ quoted text not captured ]
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, Matthew T. Morgan wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, Gregory Stuart Pettigrew wrote:
>>>>> Predator's taint
>>>> Action Modifier/Combat
>>>> Abombwe
>>>> [abo][Reflex] Cancel a frenzy card played on this vampire as it is
>>>> played.
>>>> [abo][Modifier] Only usable as the action is announced. +1 stealth,
>>>> even if stealth is not yet needed.
>>>> [ABO]{Modifier][Combat] Only usable when this vampire burns a minion
>>>> controlled by your prey, either in combat or as a (D) action. Your
>>>> prey burns two pool. A vampire may play only one Predator's
>>>> Transformation at superior each action.
>>>>
>>>> Versatile.>>>
>>> If you can burn more then 1 minion in a (D) Action, does your prey burn
>>> 2 pool each?
>>>>>
>> You'd have to do it *as* a (D) action, following the card text.
>>>>> (how can that happen?!? If he has alot of allies via something like A
>>> Army, and you do damage to all them all at once to kill multiple at one
>>> (D) Action)
>>>>>
>> Currently, it cannot happen.>
> Sure it can. Edged Illusion will kill Procurers by the zillions.
Edged Illusion will kill lots of Procurers. It is not, however, an action
that burns minions, it is an action that deals damage. Predator's Taint
[ABO] cannot be used.
XZealot wrote:
> LSJ wrote:
> > XZealot wrote:> > > I believe you could use it multiple times on the same action with Mask
> > > of 1000 Faces (in the same way as Venenation).
> >
> > Except that Mask cannot be played after action resolution.
>
> Mask is played in the same window that Predator's Transformation is
> played, which is played after action resolution.
Uh, Mask isn't played after action resolution. You can't go 'I bleed
you for 1 with Duck', and wait until after the action has resolved (and
he's already lost the 1 pool) to say 'wait wait, it was really Ozmo and
he Conditions you!' - Mask can be played after block declaration (or
final lack thereof), but it HAS to get played _before_ action
resolution - you can't determine how (or if, like the ability to pay
blood costs for instance) an action resolves if you haven't finalized
who is performing the action.
> Comments Welcome,
> Norman S. Brown, Jr
> XZealot
> Archon of the Swamp
-John Flournoy
-John Flournoy
[ quoted text not captured ]
Very, very incorrect (aside from the card title being Predator's
Transformation, not Taint).
For example:
PT can be played after you Amaranth your opponent's minion during a
combat. This is not a circumstance where you can play Mask of 1000
Faces (to, uh, suddenly say Ozmo was Amaranthing him and not the minion
who actually went through combat?)
Predator's Transformation can be played in/after a combat, and Mask
can't. Therefore, Mask cannot be played anytime Predator's
Transformation [ABO] can.
And even outside of combat: If I take a (D) action to burn my prey's
ally, I cannot play PT at [ABO] until after the action has resolved
(when the minion is burnt). But I can only play Mask _before_ the
action has resolved (although I can wait til the last second before
resolution), because the action can't resolve unless I finalize my
declaration of the acting minion so that things like 'can this acting
minion still pay the cost of the action or not' and the subsequent
actual cost-pay takes place.
For instance, I can't say that Le Dinh Tho is burning an ally with
Release of the Shackled Soul, have him actually pay the blood for the
action (and burn the ally) and THEN Mask it over to Carlotta; she has
to become the acting minion before we get to the point where the action
cost is paid (though she can do so after any block attempts have been
resolved as unsuccessful.)
Basically, Mask is almost NEVER playable when Predator's
Transformation's [ABO] level is.
-John Flournoy
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, John Flournoy wrote:
>
> Gregory Stuart Pettigrew wrote:>>
>> Mask of a Thousand Faces can be played any time Predator's Taint [ABO]
>> can.>
> Very, very incorrect (aside from the card title being Predator's
> Transformation, not Taint).
>
Sorry, I forgot at the time of posting that PT was also a Combat card.
> And even outside of combat: If I take a (D) action to burn my prey's
> ally, I cannot play PT at [ABO] until after the action has resolved
> (when the minion is burnt). But I can only play Mask _before_ the
> action has resolved (although I can wait til the last second before
> resolution), because the action can't resolve unless I finalize my
> declaration of the acting minion so that things like 'can this acting
> minion still pay the cost of the action or not' and the subsequent
> actual cost-pay takes place.
>
Designer Intent and LSJ's rulings agree with this, though card text did
not indicate it. You'd think I'd remember not to bother looking at Mask's
card text and skip straight to the rulings.
-Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
[ quoted text not captured ]
"Only usable by a ready, untapped vampire other than the acting minion
who is capable of performing the action. Not usable if any action
modifiers or other effects have been used that could not have been used
if this vampire were the acting vampire.
[obf] Untap the acting minion and tap this vampire instead. Now this
vampire is the acting minion. The action resumes where it left off."
If the action is already resolved, then no other minion is capable of
performing it.
If the action is ended, then there is nothing to resume.
XZealot wrote:
> LSJ wrote:>>XZealot wrote:>>>I believe you could use it multiple times on the same action with Mask
>>>of 1000 Faces (in the same way as Venenation).>>
>>Except that Mask cannot be played after action resolution.>
> Mask is played in the same window that Predator's Transformation is
> played, which is played after action resolution.
How is that?
Mask cannot be played after resolution.
Predator's Transformation (as an action modifier) is played after
resolution.
Their respective timing windows have no overlap.
--
That is my story, be it bitter or be it sweet.
Keep a little and let a little come back to me.
LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply)
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Predator's Transformation
Action Modifier/Combat
Abombwe
[abo][Reflex] Cancel a frenzy card played on this vampire as it is
played.
[abo][Modifier] Only usable as the action is announced. +1 stealth,
even if stealth is not yet needed.
[ABO][Modifier][Combat] Only usable when this vampire burns a minion
controlled by your prey, either in combat or as a (D) action. Your
prey burns two pool. A vampire may play only one Predator's
Transformation at superior each action.
-----
If there's a way to burn minions in a relatively easy way with Abombwe,
maybe with some Animalism backup, I can imagine seeing this card in
most of the Akunanse decks.
JH wrote:
> If there's a way to burn minions in a relatively easy way with Abombwe,
> maybe with some Animalism backup, I can imagine seeing this card in
> most of the Akunanse decks.
>
I believe that it's almost a foregone conclusion that Abombwe will be
able to deal agg damage in some way. If nothing else, I think the
current belief is that Devil-Channel: Hands will be an
Abombwe-requiring card and will grant aggravated hand damage. Not
guaranteed, but probably very likely given current information.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Edged Illusion
Type: Action
Requires: Chimerstry
Cost: 2 blood
[chi] (D) Tap a ready minion.This acting vampire inflicts 1
unpreventable damage on that minion.
*****[CHI] (D) Choose a Methuselah. This acting vampire inflicts 1
unpreventable damage on each ready minion controlled by that
Methuselah.*****
Rarity: KMW:C
Absimiliard's Army on the table. Your prey has 4 allies made via the
Army. One Ravnos play Edged Illusion at superior to cause 1 damage to
each. Then your Akunanse with CHI (or Ravnos with ABO) does a second
Edged Illusion, burning all 4 allies. Then you play Predator's
Transformation.
Anyway, I guess your prey burns only 2 pool since the card does not say
"burn 2 pool for each minion", just "play when you burn a minion from
your prey".
best,
Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
Ezekiel...@gmail.com wrote:
> Updated rules:>
>
> Ousted cards: If you are ousted, all the cards you control are removed
> from the game. (Not burned, just removed from the game.)
>
Unfortunately, Political Struggle becomes much worse now :(
I understand that this change was needed, though.
Yours,
Ector
