rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Broken Cardinal Benediction?

9 messages from 7 participants · 07 November 1996 – 09 November 1996
original thread on Google Groups

The Devil You Say

Nobody's mentioned this yet, so maybe I'm mistaken. However, Cardinal Benediction seems to be an incredibly dangerous card to me. It reads: Choose a Sabbat Vampire with a capacity over 6. Successful vote means that the vampire is given the title of Cardinal. Camarilla vampires cannot vote during this political action. Now, Cardinals don't contest. Anyone can be a Cardinal. Thus, any camarilla deck will be unable to stop Cardinals being made unless they intercept the action. If they don't, and with enough CB's, you could have an unstoppable Sabbat vote deck. All you need is a few cardinals, and you can Kine Resources Contested everyone out of existence. Seem a little abusive to anyone else to be able to have virtually unlimited votes? (Granted this requires a number of CB's, but in my two boxes of Sabbat, I got five of them. I wish WotC had mixed the cards better.) Arthur Bright

L. Scott Johnson

[ quoted text not captured ] I fail to see how this is any worse than "Of Noble Blood", which does the same thing for Primogen, but requires a ready Primogen to take the action, and doesn't require a vote. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Only XT users know that http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | Jan 1, 1980 was a Tuesday. Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

The Devil You Say

Speed, pure and simple. With a deck built around CB, you can pile up votes much, much faster. And remember, any Sabbat can call a CB. Only Primogen can use Of Noble Blood. Very deadly. Arthur L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu) wrote: : I fail to see how this is any worse than "Of Noble Blood", which does the [ quoted text not captured ]

Randy J. Ray

I had wondered if Cardinals were the direct equivalent of Justicars, i.e. one to a clan. Guess not. This is bad. Randy -- =============================================================================== Randy J. Ray -- U S WEST Technologies IAD/CSS/DPDS Phone: (303)595-2869 Denver, CO rj...@uswest.com "It's not denial. I'm just very selective about the reality I accept." --Calvin ===============================================================================

Steven Bucy

L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote in article <55sms8$7...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>... > aabr...@unix.amherst.edu (The Devil You Say) writes: > > > Nobody's mentioned this yet, so maybe I'm mistaken. However, Cardinal > >Benediction seems to be an incredibly dangerous card to me. It reads: > > >Choose a Sabbat Vampire with a capacity over 6. Successful vote means that > >the vampire is given the title of Cardinal. Camarilla vampires cannot vote > >during this political action. > > >Now, Cardinals don't contest. Anyone can be a Cardinal. Thus, any camarilla > >deck will be unable to stop Cardinals being made unless they intercept the > >action. If they don't, and with enough CB's, you could have an unstoppable > >Sabbat vote deck. All you need is a few cardinals, and you can Kine Resources > >Contested everyone out of existence. Seem a little abusive to anyone else to > >be able to have virtually unlimited votes? (Granted this requires a number of > >CB's, but in my two boxes of Sabbat, I got five of them. I wish WotC had > >mixed the cards better.) Cardinals don't contest. Oh boy... > I fail to see how this is any worse than "Of Noble Blood", which does the > same thing for Primogen, but requires a ready Primogen to take the action, > and doesn't require a vote. The reason this seems a lot worse to me is that Cardinals get _three_ votes. A primogen only gets one. For the same effort (lets say three actions) you could get three Cardinals (9 votes) or three Primogen (3 votes). Thats frightening. I was unaware that you could have more than one cardinal for any clan without contesting. -- Steve Bucy I'd be better off undead... "Hmmm. I notice the number of conditional phrases in there... _seems_ to indicate a weakness, _may_ be vulnerable in theory." - G'Kar

L. Scott Johnson

rj...@uswest.com (Randy J. Ray) writes: >sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) writes: >> aabr...@unix.amherst.edu (The Devil You Say) writes: >> >Choose a Sabbat Vampire with a capacity over 6. Successful vote means that >> >the vampire is given the title of Cardinal. Camarilla vampires cannot vote >> >during this political action. >> >> I fail to see how this is any worse than "Of Noble Blood", which does the >> same thing for Primogen, but requires a ready Primogen to take the action, >> and doesn't require a vote. >3 votes versus 1. It would take 3 Of Noble Blood's and 3 minions with a 5+ >capacity to achieve the same results. And if you are building a deck around >CB, then you probably have a few voting tricks up your sleeve. Ah. I was thinking Bishop when I read Cardinal. My apologies. This card is indeed much more powerful than Noble Blood (or even Praxis Seizures, for that matter). [ quoted text not captured ]

Stuart J. Pieloch

aabr...@unix.amherst.edu (The Devil You Say) wrote: > Speed, pure and simple. With a deck built around CB, you can pile >up votes much, much faster. And remember, any Sabbat can call a CB. Only >Primogen can use Of Noble Blood. Very deadly. >Arthur Unfortunately Cardinals must be of cap 6 or higher. which in general means you'll only get two out before running into at least minor pool problems. Three maybe, four after some sucking back. All this time you have to pull out the 6cap Sabbat, wait for the CB card. Call the vote, push the vote through, and then maybe start calling some useful votes. I'll take it against a Weenie vote deck any day. At least with the WVP deck, I can MASS BLEED if votes aren't working. Stu

Algustas

Hi Arthur, On 7 Nov 1996, The Devil You Say wrote: > Speed, pure and simple. With a deck built around CB, you can pile > up votes much, much faster. And remember, any Sabbat can call a CB. Only > Primogen can use Of Noble Blood. Very deadly. > Hmm, I don't see bringing out all of those seven or greater capacity vampires as being all that fast... It is, however, a much better card than the Justicar cards for the Camarilla clans. Algustas > > L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu) wrote: > > : I fail to see how this is any worse than "Of Noble Blood", which does the > : same thing for Primogen, but requires a ready Primogen to take the action, > : and doesn't require a vote. > > : -- [ quoted text not captured ]

Alec Chang

On Thu, 07 Nov 1996 10:40:11 MST, rj...@uswest.com (Randy J. Ray) wrote: >In article <55sms8$7...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) writes: >> aabr...@unix.amherst.edu (The Devil You Say) writes: > >> >Choose a Sabbat Vampire with a capacity over 6. Successful vote means that >> >the vampire is given the title of Cardinal. Camarilla vampires cannot vote >> >during this political action. >> >> I fail to see how this is any worse than "Of Noble Blood", which does the >> same thing for Primogen, but requires a ready Primogen to take the action, >> and doesn't require a vote. > >3 votes versus 1. It would take 3 Of Noble Blood's and 3 minions with a 5+ >capacity to achieve the same results. And if you are building a deck around >CB, then you probably have a few voting tricks up your sleeve. > Yeah. So it's an effective means of getting votes which requires a sabbat vampire of over 6 capacity. If you get it our early enough, it could swing the game in favor of one vote deck; but if not, its the only way that you have to catch up in the vote wars. Basically, Cardinal Benediction makes Prisci useful; if you're afraid that someone else is going to bring out a priscus, have (Gratiano/Genevieve/Whoever) call themselves a Cardinal, and get the vote passed so that they don't have to worry about not winning the Priscus vote. Could it be used to gain effective vote dominance? Why, yes. Could it be totally frightening? Have you looked at the vote cards in Sabbat yet? Even with importing the good votes from the basic set(KRC and Conservative agitation), you have two, maybe three good damage votes. The really nasty votes in the game are all Requiring Prince/Justicar/Inner Circler. Sabbat has no Parity Shifts, no Sabbat Threat(seems kinda cheesy, doesn't it?), and no tradtions. I'd still think that althought it's nice for votes, it's not nearly as bad as people seem to think it is. And the smaller vote ensures that cards like pulling strings will have much more swing potential. Ventrue headquarters can be used for votes too..... Alec Chang