rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Ghoul Retainer and Draught of the Soul

12 messages from 6 participants · 23 September 2003 – 24 September 2003
original thread on Google Groups

Jeff Kuta

Suppose Fatima is equipped with an Assault Rifle and Ivory Bow, and also has hired a Ghoul Retainer. Suppose further this is a Storyline event and she's just Blurred with the Rifle at range against Lambach who had 10 blood and the Eye of Hazimel. Lambach is going to burn (yay!) but can Fatima play Draught of the Soul?

salem

On 22 Sep 2003 21:53:35 -0700, jeff...@hotmail.com (Jeff Kuta) scrawled: [ quoted text not captured ] How is Lambach going to burn? Assuming the Ghoul Retainer uses the Ivory Bow, it happens during normal strike resolution, sending Lambach to torpor before additional strikes. Assuming Fatima is using the Ivory Bow, at any given strike Lambach will only be taking 1 agg damage, sending him to torpor. If Lambach was at 3 blood to start, and you did 4 with the rifle and 1 agg with the bow in the initial strikes, Lambach would burn. (X+2=5, where X=3) The Ghoul Retainer does not gain any additional strikes of it's employer. salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm

Timlagor

salem expounded: > On 22 Sep 2003 21:53:35 -0700, jeff...@hotmail.com (Jeff Kuta) > scrawled: > > >Suppose Fatima is equipped with an Assault Rifle and Ivory Bow, and > >also has hired a Ghoul Retainer. Suppose further this is a Storyline > >event and she's just Blurred with the Rifle at range against Lambach > >who had 10 blood and the Eye of Hazimel. > > > >Lambach is going to burn (yay!) but can Fatima play Draught of the > >Soul? > > How is Lambach going to burn? > > Assuming the Ghoul Retainer uses the Ivory Bow, it happens during > normal strike resolution, sending Lambach to torpor before additional > strikes. > > Assuming Fatima is using the Ivory Bow, at any given strike Lambach > will only be taking 1 agg damage, sending him to torpor. > > If Lambach was at 3 blood to start, and you did 4 with the rifle and 1 > agg with the bow in the initial strikes, Lambach would burn. (X+2=5, > where X=3) Nope. The Ghoul would wound him and Fatima would send him to topor. You need at least 2 Agg damage to burn someone. He doesn't burn. Suppose Fatima was grappled by Lambach on 0 blood and the Retainer was packing a flamethrower -then what? I would say that Fatima didn't burn Lambach (her retainer did) and so she can't Draught the Soul.

salem

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:27:08 +0100, Timlagor <Timlagor...@yahoo.com> scrawled: >salem expounded: [snip] >> If Lambach was at 3 blood to start, and you did 4 with the rifle and 1 >> agg with the bow in the initial strikes, Lambach would burn. (X+2=5, >> where X=3) > >Nope. The Ghoul would wound him and Fatima would send him to topor. You >need at least 2 Agg damage to burn someone. Nope. :) He is taking 4 normal and 1 agg all at the same time, the initial strike resolution phase. you handle normal first, then agg. so, he burns 1,2,3 blood for the first 3 points of normal damage. he's taking another normal damage, he has no blood to heal, so he becomes wounded. the then wounded Lambach handles the point of agg. when a wounded vamp takes agg, it must burn a blood or be burned. lambach has no blood at that point, so he burns. you just need x+2 damage, where _at least_ 1 is agg, to burn someone. the damage all has to be being applied at the same time, though. it's all there in the rulebook. >He doesn't burn. Yes he does. :) > Suppose Fatima was grappled by Lambach on 0 blood and >the Retainer was packing a flamethrower -then what? I would say that >Fatima didn't burn Lambach (her retainer did) and so she can't Draught >the Soul. I'd be inclined to aggree on that point. If the retainer and fatima were both doing agg to lambach at the same time, i guess the acting minion gets to choose which order the agg is applied, to determine whether fatima or the retainer burns lambach? [ quoted text not captured ]

Timlagor

salem expounded: > >He doesn't burn. > > Yes he does. :) Silly of me. Thought you could choose which damage you took first -soon as I posted it I decided I'd better check.. too late then. I probably got muddled with prevention which you can choose for. > > Suppose Fatima was grappled by Lambach on 0 blood and > >the Retainer was packing a flamethrower -then what? I would say that > >Fatima didn't burn Lambach (her retainer did) and so she can't Draught > >the Soul. > > I'd be inclined to aggree on that point. > > If the retainer and fatima were both doing agg to lambach at the same > time, i guess the acting minion gets to choose which order the agg is > applied, to determine whether fatima or the retainer burns lambach? Dunno. Someone told me that with Horrid Reality (sup) on Illusions of the Kindred, the acting Meth got to decide which would burn first -if that's right then presumably the same applies here; seems silly to me though: you ought to be able to choose the order for your own effects! [hmm no inverted commas in that sentence ;/} Timlagor I try not to be right if I can help it ;)

LSJ

[ quoted text not captured ] The flaw in the set-up has already been pointed out. But, if the flaw is worked out and Lambach burns during the resolution of Fatima's strike (with or without the help of the retainer), Fatima can play Draught of the Soul. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Jeff Kuta

salem <salem_ch...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<nskvmvc8f7stjds6b...@4ax.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] Ok. So perhaps the situation can't be as dramatic as I would wish, but the question is still valid: If a vampire with Quietus employs a Ghoul Retainer which wields the weapon that causes their opponent in combat to be burned, may the vampire play Draught of the Soul?

LSJ

Jeff Kuta wrote: > Ok. So perhaps the situation can't be as dramatic as I would wish, but > the question is still valid: If a vampire with Quietus employs a Ghoul > Retainer which wields the weapon that causes their opponent in combat > to be burned, may the vampire play Draught of the Soul? If that vampire was in on the burning, yes. If the vampire dodges while the Ghoul uses a Bang Nakh in a Dawn Operation, no (since the vampire didn't "burn another vampire" as required by card text). If the vampire punches for 1 and the Ghoul uses a Flamethrower for 2 agg against a vampire that has only 1 blood and doesn't prevent, then yes. [ quoted text not captured ]

David Cherryholmes

On 23 Sep 2003, Jeff Kuta wrote: > Ok. So perhaps the situation can't be as dramatic as I would wish, but > the question is still valid: If a vampire with Quietus employs a Ghoul > Retainer which wields the weapon that causes their opponent in combat > to be burned, may the vampire play Draught of the Soul? Scott replied to this. Yes, she can play DotS. David Cherryholmes Duke Radiology P.E.T. Facility (919) 684-7714 david.che...@duke.edu

the_capuchin

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3F7036D7...@white-wolf.com>... > Jeff Kuta wrote: > > Suppose Fatima is equipped with an Assault Rifle and Ivory Bow, and > > also has hired a Ghoul Retainer. Suppose further this is a Storyline > > event and she's just Blurred with the Rifle at range against Lambach > > who had 10 blood and the Eye of Hazimel. > > > > Lambach is going to burn (yay!) but can Fatima play Draught of the > > Soul? > > The flaw in the set-up has already been pointed out. > > But, if the flaw is worked out and Lambach burns during the resolution > of Fatima's strike (with or without the help of the retainer), Fatima > can play Draught of the Soul. So I assume that in the Lambach-with-3-blood hypothesis one must DECLARE that the Retainer is using the rifle and Fatima is using the Ivory. Is it correct? I know it seems obvious, but sometimes I get to play against people who don't care to declare correctly their strikes. They assume it's enough to burn a vampire, as it is, but in this case the declaration is a requirement to play another card. []s the_capuchin

LSJ

the_capuchin wrote: > So I assume that in the Lambach-with-3-blood hypothesis one must > DECLARE that the Retainer is using the rifle and Fatima is using the > Ivory. Is it correct? The minion must always declare a strike during the choose strikes phase, of course. Fatima need not be the one using the Bow, however, since the effects are applied simultaneously. [ quoted text not captured ]

Jeff Kuta

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3F707E53...@white-wolf.com>... > Jeff Kuta wrote: > > Ok. So perhaps the situation can't be as dramatic as I would wish, but > > the question is still valid: If a vampire with Quietus employs a Ghoul > > Retainer which wields the weapon that causes their opponent in combat > > to be burned, may the vampire play Draught of the Soul? > > If that vampire was in on the burning, yes. > If the vampire dodges while the Ghoul uses a Bang Nakh in a Dawn Operation, > no (since the vampire didn't "burn another vampire" as required by card > text). > If the vampire punches for 1 and the Ghoul uses a Flamethrower for 2 agg > against a vampire that has only 1 blood and doesn't prevent, then yes. Thanks for answering in both parts of the thread. Google's delay and all...