LSJ: Faceless night

Can you clarifiy the stuff about faceless night and deflection? Two many versions. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

take...@my-deja.com wrote: > Can you clarifiy the stuff about faceless night and deflection? > Two many versions. Sure. What stuff? A vampire whose block is thwarted by superior FN can still play reaction cards (like Enhanced Senses or Deleflection). Anything else? -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8n8qkf$qtg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] So what you are saying is a minion who attempts to block and fails is not tapped if a superior Faceless Night had been played until the action is concluded? The card seems to allude to an untapped minion who attempts to block is tapped once the block attempt fails or succeeds. Thus denying the attempting blocker the recourse of playing any other reaction cards (i.e. Deflection/Telepathic Misdirection/etc.) if the attempt failed, unless they had a WwEF or FA. Now if the minion who attempts to block is already tapped and plays a WwEF/FA, is not really affected by the Faceless Night superior effect of tapping if the block attempt fails or not as they already are tapped and could play other reaction cards (i.e. Deflection/Telepathic Misdirection/etc.). Michael Eichler Prince of Ramstein -- Worry comes from the belief you are powerless. (So get in there and kick some butt!) [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8n8qkf$qtg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > take...@my-deja.com wrote: > > Can you clarifiy the stuff about faceless night and deflection? > > Two many versions. > > Sure. What stuff? > A vampire whose block is thwarted by superior FN can still play > reaction cards (like Enhanced Senses or Deleflection). > Anything else? Does the superior of FN cancel out the superior of Deflection - ie do you tap the vampire after playing the card? Might have come up in a few posts lately, but I must have missed them. DH [ quoted text not captured ]

Ramsteiner <ramst...@my-deja.com> wrote: > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > take...@my-deja.com wrote: > > > Can you clarifiy the stuff about faceless night and deflection? > > > Two many versions. > > > > Sure. What stuff? > > A vampire whose block is thwarted by superior FN can still play > > reaction cards (like Enhanced Senses or Deleflection). > > Anything else? > > > So what you are saying is a minion who attempts to block and fails is > not tapped if a superior Faceless Night had been played until the > action is concluded? No, he'd be tapped as soon as he played Deflection, since playing Deflection implies that the Methuselah is not blocking. > The card seems to allude to an untapped minion who attempts to block is > tapped once the block attempt fails or succeeds. Not the attempt - he won't be tapped until his controller decides to make no more attempts (or the action resolves). > Now if the minion who attempts to block is already tapped and plays a > WwEF/FA, is not really affected by the Faceless Night superior effect > of tapping if the block attempt fails or not as they already are > tapped and could play other reaction cards (i.e. Deflection/Telepathic > Misdirection/etc.). Correct. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

hamd...@my-deja.com wrote: > Does the superior of FN cancel out the superior of Deflection - ie do > you tap the vampire after playing the card? Faceless Night will tap him after he plays Deflection, yes. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8n8vnb$uki$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Ramsteiner <ramst...@my-deja.com> wrote: > > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > > take...@my-deja.com wrote: > > > > Can you clarifiy the stuff about faceless night and deflection? > > > > Two many versions. > > > > > > Sure. What stuff? > > > A vampire whose block is thwarted by superior FN can still play > > > reaction cards (like Enhanced Senses or Deleflection). > > > Anything else? > > > > > So what you are saying is a minion who attempts to block and fails is > > not tapped if a superior Faceless Night had been played until the > > action is concluded? > > No, he'd be tapped as soon as he played Deflection, since playing > Deflection implies that the Methuselah is not blocking. > > > The card seems to allude to an untapped minion who attempts to block > is > > tapped once the block attempt fails or succeeds. > > Not the attempt - he won't be tapped until his controller decides to > make no more attempts (or the action resolves). > I am not sure I understand... If Minion 1 comes to bleed and Minion 2 declares a block attempt with an Untapped minion (who still remains untapped), Minion 1 can not play stealth to continue the action. If Minion 1 plays Faceless Night at superior thereby getting around Minion 2's block attempt. At this point, is Minion 2 still untapped and able to play additional reaction cards (i.e. Deflection, Telepathic Counter, Telepathic Misdirection) or is Minion 2 tapped and if it still wants to play additional reaction cards must use a WwEF or FA to play them? Michael Eichler Prince of Ramstein > > Now if the minion who attempts to block is already tapped and plays a > > WwEF/FA, is not really affected by the Faceless Night superior effect > > of tapping if the block attempt fails or not as they already are > > tapped and could play other reaction cards (i.e. Deflection/Telepathic > > Misdirection/etc.). > > Correct. > > -- > LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. > Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. > -- Worry comes from the belief you are powerless. (So get in there and kick some butt!) [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8n8vpk$ut2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > hamd...@my-deja.com wrote: > > Does the superior of FN cancel out the superior of Deflection - ie do > > you tap the vampire after playing the card? > > Faceless Night will tap him after he plays Deflection, yes. What about Cats Guidance after a FN (assuming a succesful block)? DH [ quoted text not captured ]

Ramsteiner wrote: > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > Ramsteiner <ramst...@my-deja.com> wrote: > > > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > > > A vampire whose block is thwarted by superior FN can still play > > > > reaction cards (like Enhanced Senses or Deleflection). > > > So what you are saying is a minion who attempts to block and fails is > > > not tapped if a superior Faceless Night had been played until the > > > action is concluded? > > No, he'd be tapped as soon as he played Deflection, since playing > > Deflection implies that the Methuselah is not blocking. > > > The card seems to allude to an untapped minion who attempts to block is > > > tapped once the block attempt fails or succeeds. > > Not the attempt - he won't be tapped until his controller decides to > > make no more attempts (or the action resolves). > I am not sure I understand... If Minion 1 comes to bleed and Minion 2 > declares a block attempt with an Untapped minion (who still remains > untapped), Minion 1 can not play stealth to continue the action. If ? Minion 1 can play stealth to attempt to avoid the block. > Minion 1 plays Faceless Night at superior thereby getting around Minion > 2's block attempt. At this point, is Minion 2 still untapped and able > to play additional reaction cards (i.e. Deflection, Telepathic Counter, > Telepathic Misdirection) or is Minion 2 tapped and if it still wants to > play additional reaction cards must use a WwEF or FA to play them? Minion 2 is untapped an can play reaction cards - notably intercept-gaining reaction cards (which would not be playable if he was tapped), and also other reaction cards, like Deflection, et al. Again, Faceless Night taps the "victim" block-attempter when the action resolves or when the acting Methuselah declines to make any further block attempts (whichever comes first). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ wrote: > > > Minion 1 plays Faceless Night at superior thereby getting around Minion > > 2's block attempt. At this point, is Minion 2 still untapped and able > > to play additional reaction cards (i.e. Deflection, Telepathic Counter, > > Telepathic Misdirection) or is Minion 2 tapped and if it still wants to > > play additional reaction cards must use a WwEF or FA to play them? > > Minion 2 is untapped an can play reaction cards - notably intercept-gaining > reaction cards (which would not be playable if he was tapped), and also > other reaction cards, like Deflection, et al. > > Again, Faceless Night taps the "victim" block-attempter when the action > resolves or when the acting Methuselah declines to make any further block > attempts (whichever comes first). There's one point I'm confused about here: you said earlier that playing Deflection "implies" that the deflecting Meth. is not blocking. Does that mean that if the bleed got (somehow) bounced back to the original Methuselah, that Meth. can no longer attempt to block? James -- James Hamblin ham...@math.wisc.edu "I am falling like a stone, like a storm, being born again into the morning fog." -- Kate Bush

hamd...@my-deja.com wrote: > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > hamd...@my-deja.com wrote: > > > Does the superior of FN cancel out the superior of Deflection - ie do > > > you tap the vampire after playing the card? > > Faceless Night will tap him after he plays Deflection, yes. > What about Cats Guidance after a FN (assuming a succesful block)? It will untap him, per card text. [ quoted text not captured ]

James Hamblin wrote: > There's one point I'm confused about here: you said earlier that playing > Deflection "implies" that the deflecting Meth. is not blocking. Does > that mean that if the bleed got (somehow) bounced back to the original > Methuselah, that Meth. can no longer attempt to block? No, since Deflection (and other change-the-target-of-this-action effects) generates a new "choose blockers" phase, which renders all old "I don't block" declarations null and void. [RTR 30-JUN-1997] For instance, if Meth A's minion bled Meth B and Meth B declined to block and Meth C (with Anneke ready and untapped) declined to block, Anneke could still block after the bleed is deflected to C. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ wrote: > > James Hamblin wrote: > > There's one point I'm confused about here: you said earlier that playing > > Deflection "implies" that the deflecting Meth. is not blocking. Does > > that mean that if the bleed got (somehow) bounced back to the original > > Methuselah, that Meth. can no longer attempt to block? > > No, since Deflection (and other change-the-target-of-this-action effects) > generates a new "choose blockers" phase, which renders all old "I don't > block" declarations null and void. [RTR 30-JUN-1997] One last situation: Agrippina (controlled by Meth A) bleeds Meth B. Zebulon (controlled by Meth B) attempts to block. Agrippina plays Faceless Night at superior. Zebulon is not tapped yet, since he's still trying to block. Zebulon plays Deflection (to make Agrippina bleed Meth C). Since this is an implicit "I don't block" declaration, Zebulon is tapped. Somehow (details not important) Agrippina is once again bleeding Meth B. Zebulon could not play (for example) Redirection, since he is tapped. However, another untapped minion could attempt to block Agrippina, or once again Deflect her. Correct? -- James Hamblin ham...@math.wisc.edu "And I'm ashamed of running away / from nothing real." -- Kate Bush

James Hamblin wrote: > Agrippina (controlled by Meth A) bleeds Meth B. > Zebulon (controlled by Meth B) attempts to block. > Agrippina plays Faceless Night at superior. > Zebulon is not tapped yet, since he's still trying to block. > Zebulon plays Deflection (to make Agrippina bleed Meth C). Since this > is an implicit "I don't block" declaration, Zebulon is tapped. > Somehow (details not important) Agrippina is once again bleeding Meth > B. Zebulon could not play (for example) Redirection, since he is > tapped. However, another untapped minion could attempt to block > Agrippina, or once again Deflect her. Correct. [ quoted text not captured ]